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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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yes it's the skeptic zone episode number

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129 for the eighth of april 2011 Richard

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Saunders here with you once again from

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Sydney Australia today's episode a

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couple of really great interviews lined

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up for you we're going to start with an

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interview I conducted with Michael

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Marshall from the Merseyside skeptics

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from skeptics with a k podcast now seems

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to me that most of the time Martian I

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end up bashing homeopathy which is a

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pretty worthwhile thing to do when you

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think about it that interview will be

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coming up pretty soon following that

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it's part two of my interview with James

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the amazing Randi and strangely enough

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we seem to spend a lot of time bashing

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homeopathy hmm I think I can see a trend

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here but we also discuss things like

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he's 1 million dollar challenge and TAM

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las vegas now in the past week I was on

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the treadmill trying to lose a few kilos

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and it's one of these modern ones that

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has a video screen and you plug your

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iPhone in and you can listen to all your

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favorite podcasts or watch movies you

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might have on your iPhone and I put on a

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copy of Brian Dunning's here be dragons

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an introduction to critical thinking and

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I am glad I did I've thought a couple of

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years ago and it's certainly worth

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watching again so I can recommend that

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just Google here be dragons Brian

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Dunning and you can download that

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introduction to critical thinking goes

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for about 40 minutes for free well worth

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a look but now let's start the skeptic

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zone with a very important message hello

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listeners dr. Rachel here with an

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important message for all fans of

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Science in Australia in the last 24

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hours we found out through a

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leaked document from the government that

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they plan to cut something like four

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hundred million dollars from the medical

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research funding budget to be announced

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in May if these cuts are approved it

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will be devastating for medical research

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in Australia already with the primary

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funding board the NHMRC there is only a

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twenty-three percent success rate for

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grants so seventy-seven percent of grant

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applications do not get funded even

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though about seventy percent are deemed

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to be good enough so a further twenty

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percent cut in the budget as proposed

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will drop the success rate for grants to

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under twenty percent probably to about

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eighteen percent now in practical terms

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this means that less projects in

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Australia will get funded people will

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lose their jobs and it will be a very

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big step backwards for medical research

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in Australia now we also know that these

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proposed 400 million dollar cuts to the

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budget have not yet been signed off so

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we're hoping to change the minds of the

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politicians and you can help part of the

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reason for these cuts is that the

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Gillard government made an election

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promise to have the budget in surplus in

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Australia by 2013 they think that by

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cutting medical research funding

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ordinary Australians and working

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families won't care or won't notice the

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irony being that many researchers are

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obviously working families and ordinary

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Australians and on top of that medical

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research benefits us all so the Gillard

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government has already scrapped to

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successful education programs in

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Australia run by the Australian Academy

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of Science and these were designed to

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boost science teaching across Australian

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primary and secondary schools so there

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is a precedent for cutting science

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funding there will be rallies across

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Australia on Tuesday April the 12th in

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Sydney and in Melbourne at one o'clock

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and in Adelaide on the same day at

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twelve-thirty these rallies are not just

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for scientists but we're also

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encouraging members of the community to

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come along who may have benefited from

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medical research we also would like you

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to sign the petition at research

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Australia and there's also a petition at

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get up all the information you need is

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on

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discoveries need dollas org and if you

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go to the get involved tab the

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information about how you can write a

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letter to your MP sign the e petitions

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or come to the rallies is there even if

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you can't come on Tuesday you can follow

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the proceedings on twitter by searching

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for the hashtag protect research and why

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not send us a supportive tweet on

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tuesday so we know how many people value

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medical research in australia this is

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dr. AG rallying to protect medical

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is that great theme music I really love

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that theme music I think that's the

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major reason I listen to skeptics will

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okay apart from my guest today it's

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Michael Marshall hi hi Richard really

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nice to talk with you you know it's

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really strange to talk to somebody like

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you because I think I'm listening to a

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podcast all the time I was just thinking

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exactly the same thing I'm an avid

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skeptic zone listener as well so you

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know when when you first said a lot of

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me it's not only like this in your

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podcast it's also a listening to someone

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who I speak to someone you've known for

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a long time and I think this is the

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first time we've ever had an actual

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Vocal Competition everything's been over

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Twitter and email and things like that

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you know you're absolutely right now

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that is strange that we've never

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actually spoken to each other yet our

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voices are so familiar to each other

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that's that's the modern world for you

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mmm yeah it's crazy now skeptics with a

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que what a tremendously successful

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podcast that's that is I know you've got

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many listeners all around the world what

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what started that why why was that

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podcast formed um that's a good question

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and yeah it seems to be doing alright

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really um it we started the most had

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skeptics society right about what

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februari 2009 something like that that

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was me Mike and Colin were pretty much

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the first members long-wear and I think

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it was always Mike my calls long term

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vision to have a podcast because he just

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thought they were kind of cool but he

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wasn't sure how it would work and what

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we do but I think just I've never met

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Mike before febri 2009 and we just

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thought I'd you know we got together in

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the pub and certain having a chat and

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there was a wrap all kind of instantly

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that we realized that this we had a

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fairly decent ability to sort of a riff

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off each other a little bit so I guess

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once we were regularly meeting up in

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having conversations in the pub it

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became fairly apparent that pretty much

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sticking a microphone in the middle

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would be a podcast and then we go sort

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of polished it around the edges really

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and Collins they're doing a fantastic

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job as a bit of a stabilizing force

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really I think he's a he's a very

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underrated part of the team because me

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and my tend to go off in lots of

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different directions and calls there too

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so I'll bring us back a little bit to

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ground us so yeah that's kind of how it

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came from really more about just the

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conversation we were already having in a

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pub and felt it be good to stick in my

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from the middle like you do you know

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with a think tank you stick a microphone

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the middle the pub and let things happen

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around it in the end what we started

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putting the show together we realized we

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had to move it somewhere so we're in

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Mike's back bedroom whenever you were

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record with the dinosaur wallpaper and

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the various Doctor Who accoutrements

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which line the the player so don't know

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if we mentioned on one episode we walked

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in there and Mike had a full-size Dalek

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just SAT just just there you know hadn't

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announced it hadn't said oh by the way w

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Dalek in the room we just walked in

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there's this massive Dalek there which I

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think was the Dalek we ended up using it

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QED and he's yeah he's got all sorts of

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his eye doctor who stuff around there

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but so yet it that's kind of how it came

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about really I guess well every every

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home should have one I've got a couple

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here and my bookshelf as a matter of

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fact do you have any life like Cybermen

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masks he's got two of them as well that

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you can actually put on your head no

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I've got a servant fridge magnet does

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that count I think it does count and I

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don't like sci-fi that much you know I'm

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there amongst all this stuff I'm not a

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big fan it's a so dirty little secret oh

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well there had to be somebody in The

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Skeptical movement who wasn't a fan oh

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I'll never mind I guess you're it so the

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podcast is as I was saying very

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successful you must get letters

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correspondence from people all around

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the world who tune in to skeptics with a

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que yeah we do i mean we actually seem

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to have a fairly decent fanbase in

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australia new zealand oddly enough it

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seems like every other person who emails

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us is from Australia so I don't know

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whether it's that you guys get our sense

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of humor or or whether we both have a

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lack of sense if I'm not sure but we

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tend to do do all right there but no

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it's great to see to get sort of message

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from all around the world and people

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saying you know we were in the middle of

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you know a fairly biblical state in

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America and they like to tune in to sort

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of cope with how their day-to-day lives

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are filled with complete religious

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nonsense and there's us they're sort of

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taking the piss a little bit so yeah it

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is really really cool but very surreal

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hmm and I kind of always sort of freaks

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us out a little bit whenever we meet

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anyone who's heard of us ever because I

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was it um tam in London it was the

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second time London so the one just gone

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and a woman just walk up to me and shook

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my hand and said this is from Karl Mayer

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the conspiracy skeptic podcast over in

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Canada and he said if you are going to

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London and you meet Marsh make sure you

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shake his head it's very surreal at

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someone from Canada had sent an an env

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over just to grab me by the hand very

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bizarre it's no good stuff to no good

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stuff to I'm it's very flattering and

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occasionally people come up to me and

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wish me well and they enjoy buna skip

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exam podcast and it's it's it's really

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enjoyable so I'm moving on from from the

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podcast you're also the Merseyside

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skeptics probably our most famous for 10

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23 and the global action now against the

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modern witchcraft of homeopathy that

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must give you an awful amount of

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satisfaction and frustration at the same

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time yeah yeah absolutely i mean it's

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it's satisfying and utterly surreal just

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how how big the campaign got really you

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know when it started again you know one

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of the first things we did when we sat

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down and and create the Merseyside

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skeptics society you know it was Mike's

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kind of point first point the agenda

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we're not just going to do skeptics in

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the pub will do with skeptics in the pub

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talk but we want to be a rounded society

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that does of the stuff and one of the

272
00:11:12,740 --> 00:11:10,620
things he wanted to do was to you know

273
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:12,750
take a look at something like an

274
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:14,850
alternative medicine and homeopathy was

275
00:11:17,990 --> 00:11:16,890
on the list and it sort of sprung from

276
00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:18,000
there really there was a point i think

277
00:11:22,850 --> 00:11:20,970
in sort of August September maybe even

278
00:11:24,829 --> 00:11:22,860
slightly earlier than that where there's

279
00:11:27,319 --> 00:11:24,839
myself Mike and Andy Wilson who you feel

280
00:11:29,750 --> 00:11:27,329
me merseyside skeptics board we've just

281
00:11:31,340 --> 00:11:29,760
sat in a pub discussing targets and

282
00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:31,350
homeopathy came up and that's where it

283
00:11:35,389 --> 00:11:33,690
was cemented and the campaign from that

284
00:11:37,579 --> 00:11:35,399
little start of three men in a pub in

285
00:11:39,769 --> 00:11:37,589
Liverpool to see it all around the world

286
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:39,779
and see people went t-shirts making

287
00:11:43,939 --> 00:11:42,480
so-called overdoses of the home Catholic

288
00:11:45,980 --> 00:11:43,949
remedies and you obviously were in from

289
00:11:48,790 --> 00:11:45,990
the from the first year weren't you I

290
00:11:51,439 --> 00:11:48,800
was one of the first initial

291
00:11:53,510 --> 00:11:51,449
international sort of venture was was

292
00:11:56,509 --> 00:11:53,520
you guys outside a pharmacy in incidence

293
00:11:59,300 --> 00:11:56,519
in the term to see just how big it got

294
00:12:00,410 --> 00:11:59,310
is has been amazing with people in you

295
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:00,420
know this time when we did it there was

296
00:12:05,540 --> 00:12:02,610
I think it was 30 countries 70 cities

297
00:12:07,069 --> 00:12:05,550
and 1,600 people around the world that

298
00:12:08,660 --> 00:12:07,079
we know of and that's just the ones who

299
00:12:10,430 --> 00:12:08,670
got in touch with us we keep seeing

300
00:12:12,319 --> 00:12:10,440
little people firing through a random

301
00:12:12,690 --> 00:12:12,329
video saying oh by the way I joined in

302
00:12:16,530 --> 00:12:12,700
as well

303
00:12:18,570 --> 00:12:16,540
you know Rosario in Argentina and things

304
00:12:21,630 --> 00:12:18,580
like that so it's a it's just phenomenal

305
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:21,640
and I hope it's kind of adding to a bit

306
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:24,490
of a a zeitgeist or a kind of a ground

307
00:12:27,330 --> 00:12:26,290
swell really because there are things

308
00:12:30,630 --> 00:12:27,340
that are happening in the UK with

309
00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:30,640
homeopathy is taking a real hit there's

310
00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:32,110
a lot of stuff that's going on the media

311
00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:32,800
at the moment where they're very

312
00:12:37,260 --> 00:12:34,690
critical homeopathy which is great and

313
00:12:38,730 --> 00:12:37,270
I'd never said that 1023 is the reason

314
00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:38,740
for that but I'd like to think that

315
00:12:43,410 --> 00:12:41,650
we've added to the calls for it about it

316
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:43,420
we've added a little bit of noise to say

317
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:45,610
actually we want that people aren't

318
00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:47,050
going to sort of stand around and have

319
00:12:51,870 --> 00:12:48,850
these you know witchcraft as you say

320
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:51,880
sugar pills being flogged as medicine to

321
00:12:55,830 --> 00:12:53,890
people who don't know any better you

322
00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:55,840
know they're not gullible people as such

323
00:12:59,100 --> 00:12:57,370
they're just people who don't have the

324
00:13:01,230 --> 00:12:59,110
facts and it's okay to be wrong it's

325
00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:01,240
just not okay if to exploit people's

326
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:03,720
wrongness well well you know what

327
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:06,490
consumers all around the world basically

328
00:13:12,390 --> 00:13:09,760
have been lied to homeopaths still say

329
00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:12,400
that their mixtures contain a tiny

330
00:13:18,630 --> 00:13:15,760
amount of this that the other and as 10

331
00:13:21,270 --> 00:13:18,640
23 points out clearly there is nothing

332
00:13:24,750 --> 00:13:21,280
in it forget about it who cares what

333
00:13:26,220 --> 00:13:24,760
what may have been once near it in

334
00:13:28,740 --> 00:13:26,230
whatever concentrations that's

335
00:13:31,530 --> 00:13:28,750
irrelevant what the it's in the packet

336
00:13:33,150 --> 00:13:31,540
at the end of the day is nothing well

337
00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:33,160
you hope it's nothing because there are

338
00:13:36,210 --> 00:13:34,720
all sorts of people out there who call

339
00:13:38,250 --> 00:13:36,220
themselves how many perhaps making up

340
00:13:40,020 --> 00:13:38,260
their own magic brew and you never know

341
00:13:42,810 --> 00:13:40,030
but at least your stuff in the

342
00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:42,820
pharmacies you can almost bit your next

343
00:13:46,710 --> 00:13:44,650
hot dinner on that there'll be just

344
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:46,720
nothing in them yeah and that's that's

345
00:13:49,530 --> 00:13:48,250
kind of ironic thing because you know

346
00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:49,540
when we when we launched the campaign

347
00:13:55,020 --> 00:13:51,570
and we did our overdoses here in the UK

348
00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:55,030
we took homeopathy provided by boots

349
00:13:59,460 --> 00:13:57,250
specifically because we trusted boots to

350
00:14:01,650 --> 00:13:59,470
sell us nonsense legitimately with all

351
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:01,660
these guys yes they're going to sell us

352
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:03,040
something pretending it's medicine but

353
00:14:05,730 --> 00:14:04,330
they're not going to actually lie to us

354
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:05,740
even further and put something in there

355
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:06,850
they're going to sell us nothing it's

356
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:08,170
the deal we can trust them to do that

357
00:14:13,470 --> 00:14:10,330
which is bizarre knit and it's hard I

358
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:13,480
mean I'm never sure whether to say that

359
00:14:17,580 --> 00:14:15,610
consumers are being lied to as such I

360
00:14:19,410 --> 00:14:17,590
mean the system of homeopathy I think

361
00:14:21,690 --> 00:14:19,420
absolutely lies to customers lots of

362
00:14:24,510 --> 00:14:21,700
consumers but from my experience I'd say

363
00:14:26,310 --> 00:14:24,520
individual homeopaths they're not too

364
00:14:28,110 --> 00:14:26,320
much as far as I can tell most are

365
00:14:29,670 --> 00:14:28,120
liars they just simply don't know and

366
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:29,680
haven't ever bought it bothered asking

367
00:14:32,940 --> 00:14:30,730
you and they've never bothered asking

368
00:14:34,830 --> 00:14:32,950
the question as to why this works why

369
00:14:37,140 --> 00:14:34,840
how can you tell it works there people

370
00:14:39,390 --> 00:14:37,150
who have perhaps tried at themselves and

371
00:14:41,250 --> 00:14:39,400
been taken in by the very persuasive

372
00:14:42,390 --> 00:14:41,260
charms of the placebo effect and

373
00:14:43,980 --> 00:14:42,400
regression to the mean and all these

374
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:43,990
other things that we know a huge

375
00:14:49,350 --> 00:14:46,690
psychological factors that that take

376
00:14:50,730 --> 00:14:49,360
part in in people's recoveries nothing

377
00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:50,740
to do with the magic pills and its

378
00:14:54,660 --> 00:14:52,510
people who've been taken in by these

379
00:14:56,070 --> 00:14:54,670
powerful factors who then go on to try

380
00:14:59,220 --> 00:14:56,080
and flog it themselves and have never

381
00:15:00,720 --> 00:14:59,230
had the intellectual rigor to sit down

382
00:15:02,070 --> 00:15:00,730
and say well actually let's look at

383
00:15:03,810 --> 00:15:02,080
whether this really works first it's the

384
00:15:05,250 --> 00:15:03,820
the classic it worked for me and

385
00:15:08,010 --> 00:15:05,260
therefore I'll go and sell it so I

386
00:15:10,740 --> 00:15:08,020
wondered just how many homeopaths know

387
00:15:13,770 --> 00:15:10,750
it's nonsense or suspect it's nonsense I

388
00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:13,780
I genuinely think the majority is that

389
00:15:17,730 --> 00:15:16,240
I've come across would genuinely believe

390
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:17,740
they're doing well which is why you get

391
00:15:22,350 --> 00:15:19,570
things like you know homie pass without

392
00:15:24,870 --> 00:15:22,360
borders people going over to Haiti with

393
00:15:26,220 --> 00:15:24,880
suitcases filled with with pills and

394
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:26,230
it's something that the comedian over

395
00:15:30,390 --> 00:15:27,970
here in England although he's one of you

396
00:15:31,860 --> 00:15:30,400
guys matt parker who's a mathematician

397
00:15:33,390 --> 00:15:31,870
he always makes a point that what's

398
00:15:36,690 --> 00:15:33,400
really upsetting about Holly past with

399
00:15:39,060 --> 00:15:36,700
our borders is they went to Haiti they

400
00:15:40,980 --> 00:15:39,070
took something there in pill bottles

401
00:15:43,250 --> 00:15:40,990
they made all that effort and at the end

402
00:15:45,330 --> 00:15:43,260
they handed out nothing yeah yeah and

403
00:15:47,540 --> 00:15:45,340
it's a remarkable thing and that's

404
00:15:50,220 --> 00:15:47,550
that's almost worse than somebody

405
00:15:52,020 --> 00:15:50,230
knowing it's nonsense and selling it to

406
00:15:54,180 --> 00:15:52,030
someone with a cold you know it took all

407
00:15:55,740 --> 00:15:54,190
that genuinely believing it to get there

408
00:15:58,160 --> 00:15:55,750
and to be handing people who were you

409
00:16:00,660 --> 00:15:58,170
know dying of all sorts of things in the

410
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:00,670
wake of a natural disaster to hand them

411
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:03,250
sugar even believing it will help is is

412
00:16:07,650 --> 00:16:05,770
just a remarkably frustrating because

413
00:16:09,420 --> 00:16:07,660
those people their intention is

414
00:16:11,610 --> 00:16:09,430
absolutely right they want to help they

415
00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:11,620
want to do something to to lessen the

416
00:16:15,690 --> 00:16:13,570
sadness and lessen the suffering but

417
00:16:17,580 --> 00:16:15,700
they're doing nothing and there that is

418
00:16:19,710 --> 00:16:17,590
wasting time and wasting resources so

419
00:16:22,170 --> 00:16:19,720
it's it's incredibly frustrating in I

420
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:22,180
suppose they are there are two sides of

421
00:16:28,620 --> 00:16:24,490
this you can look at it from a certain

422
00:16:30,930 --> 00:16:28,630
angle and say that they probably in some

423
00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:30,940
cases gave comfort to people oh here's

424
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:32,800
this guy from another country of this

425
00:16:36,420 --> 00:16:34,330
woman from another country come all the

426
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:36,430
way and they're trying to do something

427
00:16:41,070 --> 00:16:38,560
but the flip side of that coin of course

428
00:16:42,650 --> 00:16:41,080
and what we've seen happening in this

429
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:42,660
country is where people have taken

430
00:16:49,260 --> 00:16:46,000
magical vibrational witchcraft sugar

431
00:16:52,530 --> 00:16:49,270
pills instead of real medicine when real

432
00:16:54,780 --> 00:16:52,540
medicine was required we've had at least

433
00:16:57,810 --> 00:16:54,790
two horrible deaths to my knowledge in

434
00:17:01,220 --> 00:16:57,820
this country alone and the blame can be

435
00:17:03,570 --> 00:17:01,230
put purely and squarely on homeopathy

436
00:17:05,419 --> 00:17:03,580
yeah no absolutely and those those are

437
00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:05,429
the cases where it that the harm that

438
00:17:09,929 --> 00:17:07,360
what's the harm question becomes

439
00:17:12,150 --> 00:17:09,939
completely completely answered you know

440
00:17:15,780 --> 00:17:12,160
this is the harm and in it here in the

441
00:17:17,939 --> 00:17:15,790
UK you know we've seen expose is where

442
00:17:20,360 --> 00:17:17,949
the sa expose is it's not even that much

443
00:17:22,890 --> 00:17:20,370
of an exposé homeopaths of giving

444
00:17:25,530 --> 00:17:22,900
homeopathic alternatives nor swords to

445
00:17:26,850 --> 00:17:25,540
the MMR vaccine and it's not really

446
00:17:28,439 --> 00:17:26,860
expose because we all know what's

447
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:28,449
happening I mean maybe the the the

448
00:17:32,669 --> 00:17:30,850
widespread the mentoring public didn't

449
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:32,679
know what was happening but there's

450
00:17:35,610 --> 00:17:34,090
nobody I would speak to who would be

451
00:17:37,590 --> 00:17:35,620
surprised by the fact that Holly Paz

452
00:17:39,660 --> 00:17:37,600
would do this but they are doing it you

453
00:17:41,820 --> 00:17:39,670
know they're given alternative to that

454
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:41,830
you can go into health food shops and

455
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:43,570
buy homeopathic remedies that will

456
00:17:46,290 --> 00:17:45,250
prevent you getting malaria which is

457
00:17:47,940 --> 00:17:46,300
great until you actually go somewhere

458
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:47,950
and then get malaria because they're

459
00:17:51,630 --> 00:17:50,050
ineffective and you're on is there is a

460
00:17:53,610 --> 00:17:51,640
phenomenal amount of harm being done by

461
00:17:55,919 --> 00:17:53,620
people who genuinely think that they're

462
00:17:58,890 --> 00:17:55,929
helping I believe but you get your point

463
00:18:00,000 --> 00:17:58,900
where does their intention of thinking

464
00:18:03,060 --> 00:18:00,010
they're actually helping does that

465
00:18:04,830 --> 00:18:03,070
matter if the the net result is people

466
00:18:07,590 --> 00:18:04,840
you know people dying people suffering

467
00:18:08,669 --> 00:18:07,600
and necessarily people wasting what time

468
00:18:11,850 --> 00:18:08,679
they have you know you have people

469
00:18:13,590 --> 00:18:11,860
who've got terminal diseases who fog or

470
00:18:15,450 --> 00:18:13,600
medical treatments that would prolong

471
00:18:17,850 --> 00:18:15,460
their lives yeah in favor of these

472
00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:17,860
supposed miracle cures and you know the

473
00:18:23,940 --> 00:18:21,370
miracle crew of homeopathy to to to keep

474
00:18:25,860 --> 00:18:23,950
their cancer at bay and they died six

475
00:18:27,780 --> 00:18:25,870
months a year before they would have

476
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:27,790
died or than they could have lived an

477
00:18:32,910 --> 00:18:30,210
incredibly under medical treatment yeah

478
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:32,920
absolutely in some cases they they could

479
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:34,570
have simply lived they could fix their

480
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:37,090
problem and gone on living there was a

481
00:18:44,530 --> 00:18:39,490
baby died here a few years back her

482
00:18:47,210 --> 00:18:44,540
parents are now in jail because they

483
00:18:48,980 --> 00:18:47,220
neglected the baby they said well we'll

484
00:18:52,940 --> 00:18:48,990
use homeopathy to cure our baby's

485
00:18:54,500 --> 00:18:52,950
condition a curable condition now but I

486
00:18:57,230 --> 00:18:54,510
also think that with all this action

487
00:19:00,680 --> 00:18:57,240
worldwide especially in the UK and more

488
00:19:02,150 --> 00:19:00,690
increasingly worldwide what what what do

489
00:19:04,220 --> 00:19:02,160
you think the homeopaths are thinking

490
00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:04,230
about this they must I've never seen an

491
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:06,240
opposition to this like this in their

492
00:19:11,690 --> 00:19:08,970
lives they must be completely taken

493
00:19:14,180 --> 00:19:11,700
aback yeah well the response we've had

494
00:19:16,070 --> 00:19:14,190
that the first time we did it but the

495
00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:16,080
response was was sort of a bit of panic

496
00:19:21,530 --> 00:19:19,110
and and sort of like after the fact

497
00:19:23,060 --> 00:19:21,540
attempt a crisis management from people

498
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:23,070
who were very sort of amateurish at it

499
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:25,200
and we saw some like fantastic own goals

500
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:26,160
from some of the home we passed that

501
00:19:30,290 --> 00:19:27,090
kind of thing and they clearly were

502
00:19:32,180 --> 00:19:30,300
unprepared for what we did you know with

503
00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:32,190
the mass global or the mass / loss in

504
00:19:35,660 --> 00:19:34,080
the UK and then when it came almost

505
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:35,670
exactly a year later you know it was a

506
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:37,770
year and five days later and we did it

507
00:19:42,230 --> 00:19:39,690
again they were just as panicked and

508
00:19:43,669 --> 00:19:42,240
just as surprised and you know that

509
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:43,679
actually astounded us that had they not

510
00:19:46,910 --> 00:19:45,090
prepared for this had they not thought

511
00:19:49,100 --> 00:19:46,920
right this has happened how are you know

512
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:49,110
that cats out of the bag how do we deal

513
00:19:51,980 --> 00:19:50,730
with that but you know it was still a

514
00:19:54,169 --> 00:19:51,990
complete surprise to them and there was

515
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:54,179
still this sort of panic and obviously

516
00:19:57,770 --> 00:19:55,650
we get the same all kind of stuff which

517
00:20:00,110 --> 00:19:57,780
is you know that anyone who's opposing

518
00:20:01,580 --> 00:20:00,120
homie opening that way is is in the

519
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:01,590
pocket of big pharma which i think is a

520
00:20:06,340 --> 00:20:04,170
phenomenal argument to make for a couple

521
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:06,350
of reasons first of all being that the

522
00:20:12,020 --> 00:20:09,510
homeopathic industry is hardly shy of a

523
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:12,030
few pennies itself you know you look at

524
00:20:15,860 --> 00:20:13,530
the the Giants of the homeopathic

525
00:20:16,910 --> 00:20:15,870
industry and you look at like boron and

526
00:20:17,990 --> 00:20:16,920
there's well layer doing things like

527
00:20:20,030 --> 00:20:18,000
that and we're talking hundreds of

528
00:20:22,549 --> 00:20:20,040
millions if not billions of pounds a

529
00:20:24,049 --> 00:20:22,559
year that there are dollars here that

530
00:20:26,299 --> 00:20:24,059
they're making from this stuff so to say

531
00:20:27,919 --> 00:20:26,309
that it's big business it's Big Pharma

532
00:20:30,530 --> 00:20:27,929
that are suppressing this for profit is

533
00:20:31,790 --> 00:20:30,540
a phenomenal thing to say and then on

534
00:20:34,310 --> 00:20:31,800
top of that you know you've got examples

535
00:20:36,770 --> 00:20:34,320
where there's a huge pharma company

536
00:20:38,270 --> 00:20:36,780
Merck who actually owned seven seas

537
00:20:39,380 --> 00:20:38,280
which is a vitamin company identifies

538
00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:39,390
just here in the UK or whether it's

539
00:20:43,190 --> 00:20:40,559
international I don't know enough about

540
00:20:45,020 --> 00:20:43,200
it but 70s have a homeopathic Rindge and

541
00:20:46,549 --> 00:20:45,030
it's because merck have figured out that

542
00:20:48,290 --> 00:20:46,559
yes we can spend all our money

543
00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:48,300
developing new products or we can just

544
00:20:52,370 --> 00:20:50,130
sell sugar and pretend it's a product oh

545
00:20:55,460 --> 00:20:52,380
yeah more cash yeah you know so there's

546
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:55,470
times in homeopathy themselves itself is

547
00:20:58,100 --> 00:20:57,210
being solved by the pharma companies and

548
00:20:59,780 --> 00:20:58,110
you know

549
00:21:01,460 --> 00:20:59,790
the number of times that I've been on

550
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:01,470
radio debates things like that where

551
00:21:04,490 --> 00:21:03,090
somebody has said well actually all this

552
00:21:06,169 --> 00:21:04,500
opposition is just funded by the the

553
00:21:07,610 --> 00:21:06,179
pharmaceutical companies and it's always

554
00:21:09,230 --> 00:21:07,620
a homeopath who says that they just want

555
00:21:11,690 --> 00:21:09,240
to stop the debate there and say sorry

556
00:21:13,910 --> 00:21:11,700
of the two people talking here one of us

557
00:21:15,890 --> 00:21:13,920
is selling homeopathy is there is it any

558
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:15,900
surprise that you're against this you

559
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:17,850
know one of us is directly making cash

560
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:20,130
from this and people don't don't see

561
00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:21,510
that part of the argument when a

562
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:23,280
homeopath says oh you know they're

563
00:21:26,299 --> 00:21:24,330
saying this because they're scared about

564
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:26,309
profiting from it well you know that

565
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:27,570
you're obviously profiting from it you

566
00:21:31,630 --> 00:21:29,010
don't give you homeopathy aware for free

567
00:21:35,419 --> 00:21:31,640
it's it's it's remarkable the idea that

568
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:35,429
homeopathy is feared by a big farmer

569
00:21:39,770 --> 00:21:37,410
because Big Pharma can't sell it is

570
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:39,780
ludicrous because if it worked there

571
00:21:45,049 --> 00:21:41,970
absolutely would sell it you know it's

572
00:21:46,340 --> 00:21:45,059
cheaper it's easier to manufacture you

573
00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:46,350
don't have to go through safety tests

574
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:47,280
you don't even have to go through

575
00:21:50,570 --> 00:21:49,290
product development you just come up

576
00:21:53,060 --> 00:21:50,580
with something in make it pretty much

577
00:21:54,919 --> 00:21:53,070
you know a couple of proving ziz is so

578
00:21:56,870 --> 00:21:54,929
much cheaper and easier than getting

579
00:21:58,730 --> 00:21:56,880
ethical approval for clinical trials if

580
00:22:01,940 --> 00:21:58,740
it worked did sell it why would they

581
00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:01,950
bother with anything to do with proving

582
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:04,320
zor SE kings or bangings on table with

583
00:22:08,539 --> 00:22:05,970
leather bound books why would they

584
00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:08,549
bother why wouldn't they just have a

585
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:10,320
machine that made sugar pills put them

586
00:22:13,549 --> 00:22:11,850
in different packages and say this is

587
00:22:16,460 --> 00:22:13,559
for hay fever this is for headaches this

588
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:16,470
is sleeping I mean who's gonna who's

589
00:22:21,230 --> 00:22:19,770
going to check well I I do wonder I'd

590
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:21,240
love to see how the big companies

591
00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:22,610
actually do it I mean I suspect

592
00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:24,720
absolutely i suspect they don't do the

593
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:27,840
one drop into 99 etc etc I've seen

594
00:22:30,740 --> 00:22:29,130
machines that do the the you know the

595
00:22:32,780 --> 00:22:30,750
caustic off method have you seen this no

596
00:22:34,039 --> 00:22:32,790
I haven't no the Corsican method is is

597
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:34,049
that the most amazing thing about

598
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:35,610
homeopathy and I've often thought that

599
00:22:39,980 --> 00:22:38,010
we've missed a trick slightly into bit

600
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:39,990
because we tend to say well homeopathy

601
00:22:43,370 --> 00:22:41,970
you take a drop of what a drop of onion

602
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:43,380
juice stick it into 99 drops of water

603
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:45,690
shake it take it from there and put into

604
00:22:49,850 --> 00:22:48,330
another 99 drops water etc etc you very

605
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:49,860
quickly lose people when you start doing

606
00:22:53,570 --> 00:22:51,330
that they start just hearing numbers and

607
00:22:55,100 --> 00:22:53,580
99 s and drops yeah I think you're right

608
00:22:57,470 --> 00:22:55,110
yeah but the cost curve method is

609
00:22:59,510 --> 00:22:57,480
amazing because obviously to do that

610
00:23:02,480 --> 00:22:59,520
whole serial dilution takes a long time

611
00:23:04,490 --> 00:23:02,490
and produces a lot of kind of waste

612
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:04,500
products at each stage so it would be

613
00:23:07,850 --> 00:23:05,970
great if you come up with a way that

614
00:23:10,130 --> 00:23:07,860
didn't involve that and course a cough I

615
00:23:12,050 --> 00:23:10,140
forget when he was from he did it by

616
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:12,060
putting a drop of your

617
00:23:15,140 --> 00:23:13,770
induce or whatever in you 99 drops of

618
00:23:16,850 --> 00:23:15,150
water and given a good circus and all

619
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:16,860
that and then you pour all of that out

620
00:23:23,060 --> 00:23:19,410
and refill your test tube or whatever

621
00:23:24,590 --> 00:23:23,070
from scratch the idea being that as

622
00:23:26,150 --> 00:23:24,600
you've poured it all out there's always

623
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:26,160
little droplets that stick to the side

624
00:23:31,270 --> 00:23:28,650
of the tube so it's not fully empty and

625
00:23:34,370 --> 00:23:31,280
that is just it turns out that enough to

626
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:34,380
constitute keeping the water memory so

627
00:23:38,570 --> 00:23:37,170
you basically you fill it shake it empty

628
00:23:41,030 --> 00:23:38,580
it fill it again she could empty it to

629
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:41,040
do that 30 times its rinsing you just

630
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:43,890
rinse nothing and all the other machines

631
00:23:47,630 --> 00:23:45,570
that do this on industrial scale just

632
00:23:49,790 --> 00:23:47,640
you know because that is a very simple

633
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:49,800
reaction for machine to ticklin a drop

634
00:23:52,790 --> 00:23:51,330
into 99 and shake and a drop into

635
00:23:55,610 --> 00:23:52,800
another 99 and you know having 30

636
00:23:58,730 --> 00:23:55,620
buckets lined up that simple sure can

637
00:24:00,590 --> 00:23:58,740
fill is it takes almost no time and I'm

638
00:24:01,790 --> 00:24:00,600
absolutely stunned when I was absolutely

639
00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:01,800
stunned when i came across that and i

640
00:24:05,780 --> 00:24:04,320
think that is one of the dirty secrets

641
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:05,790
of homeopathy that i think has to be

642
00:24:08,780 --> 00:24:07,410
told a little bit more because when

643
00:24:11,210 --> 00:24:08,790
people see that and there's other things

644
00:24:12,830 --> 00:24:11,220
like I think it's a radionics device I

645
00:24:14,420 --> 00:24:12,840
saw someone using a radionics device to

646
00:24:16,730 --> 00:24:14,430
to create homeopathy Nigel if you've

647
00:24:18,110 --> 00:24:16,740
ever seen one of those and they take the

648
00:24:20,540 --> 00:24:18,120
homeopathic product and put it on a

649
00:24:22,670 --> 00:24:20,550
little metal play it and press a button

650
00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:22,680
and it starts to vibrate and then

651
00:24:26,690 --> 00:24:23,910
they'll take that off in the puttin a

652
00:24:28,730 --> 00:24:26,700
vial full of empty homeopathic pills or

653
00:24:30,140 --> 00:24:28,740
the blank pills put it on the plate and

654
00:24:33,770 --> 00:24:30,150
press the button to play the same

655
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:33,780
vibration now and that copies it copying

656
00:24:37,820 --> 00:24:35,490
the vibrational call me up the into the

657
00:24:39,230 --> 00:24:37,830
new pills not turns out turns out that

658
00:24:41,630 --> 00:24:39,240
works which is which is fortunate

659
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:41,640
because maybe a hell of a lot of time

660
00:24:45,410 --> 00:24:43,290
and effort to actually do it the

661
00:24:47,570 --> 00:24:45,420
old-fashioned way so it's just very very

662
00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:47,580
lucky that the water memory and all that

663
00:24:53,750 --> 00:24:48,960
kind of stuff can be translated in that

664
00:24:57,290 --> 00:24:53,760
kind of way daggering I'm sorry

665
00:24:59,450 --> 00:24:57,300
obviously sometimes I'm gobsmacked ya

666
00:25:01,460 --> 00:24:59,460
know I mean when I saw there's a couple

667
00:25:02,510 --> 00:25:01,470
of videos on YouTube and this is one of

668
00:25:05,390 --> 00:25:02,520
the things that's happening the UK

669
00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:05,400
because the the regulations that say

670
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:07,110
what homeopathy you can sell and what

671
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:09,210
you can't are based very much i believe

672
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:11,850
on the method you produce them so you

673
00:25:15,170 --> 00:25:13,290
have to do it a very specific way are

674
00:25:16,940 --> 00:25:15,180
set down and if you are using radionics

675
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:16,950
devices i'm not sure if could the

676
00:25:20,570 --> 00:25:19,170
classic offer method counts or not but

677
00:25:23,690 --> 00:25:20,580
certainly the radionics device to copy

678
00:25:25,779 --> 00:25:23,700
it falls outside of of what you're

679
00:25:27,669 --> 00:25:25,789
legally allowed to do to be not count

680
00:25:29,649 --> 00:25:27,679
medicine so there's going to be all

681
00:25:31,239 --> 00:25:29,659
sorts of sparks in the UK when a few

682
00:25:32,979 --> 00:25:31,249
complaints that are being put in work

683
00:25:34,060 --> 00:25:32,989
their way through the system I think

684
00:25:35,399 --> 00:25:34,070
that that could be a real infra

685
00:25:37,599 --> 00:25:35,409
somewhere down the line you know I'm

686
00:25:39,999 --> 00:25:37,609
listening to all this I can't help

687
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:40,009
thinking that one day this is going to

688
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:43,850
make a terrific book be the whole Nam

689
00:25:49,509 --> 00:25:46,850
serious the whole story and why you're

690
00:25:52,570 --> 00:25:49,519
talking to me now I you know the story

691
00:25:55,570 --> 00:25:52,580
that the adventures are forming in my

692
00:25:57,580 --> 00:25:55,580
mind of the formation of the skeptics

693
00:26:00,659 --> 00:25:57,590
and leading through specifically the 10

694
00:26:04,659 --> 00:26:00,669
23 and including things like this

695
00:26:07,210 --> 00:26:04,669
bizarre methods that they come up with

696
00:26:08,710 --> 00:26:07,220
in order to produce these pills hmm I

697
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:08,720
think would make a terrific book and I

698
00:26:13,299 --> 00:26:11,330
would encourage you to keep extensive

699
00:26:14,889 --> 00:26:13,309
notes so one day you know when you're

700
00:26:17,259 --> 00:26:14,899
retired you think well what am I going

701
00:26:19,149 --> 00:26:17,269
to do in my retirement oh I know way

702
00:26:21,159 --> 00:26:19,159
back in the early part of the century I

703
00:26:22,839 --> 00:26:21,169
was in part of this campaign which saw

704
00:26:25,419 --> 00:26:22,849
the end of homeopathy i'm sure people

705
00:26:26,859 --> 00:26:25,429
want to know about it yeah I probably

706
00:26:28,299 --> 00:26:26,869
should take notes at the moment I just

707
00:26:30,310 --> 00:26:28,309
have a collection of anecdotes that I

708
00:26:32,169 --> 00:26:30,320
tell over a pint in the pub I think

709
00:26:33,339 --> 00:26:32,179
increasingly to the frustration of my

710
00:26:35,830 --> 00:26:33,349
girlfriend who's heard them all before

711
00:26:38,109 --> 00:26:35,840
yeah but there are some great stories

712
00:26:39,639 --> 00:26:38,119
you know from the the first overdose in

713
00:26:41,830 --> 00:26:39,649
the UK there was a somewhat I believe in

714
00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:41,840
Bristol who bought their remedy from

715
00:26:46,239 --> 00:26:44,809
boots and identificate the cliq packs

716
00:26:48,310 --> 00:26:46,249
over in Australia but over here we have

717
00:26:49,869 --> 00:26:48,320
them in little vials that you click the

718
00:26:53,859 --> 00:26:49,879
top and while we get blue spills and

719
00:26:54,849 --> 00:26:53,869
attacks here life alright well you're

720
00:26:56,409 --> 00:26:54,859
not supposed to touch them with your

721
00:26:57,789 --> 00:26:56,419
hands apparently you take with some of

722
00:26:58,930 --> 00:26:57,799
the vibrations if you actually touch

723
00:27:00,849 --> 00:26:58,940
them as opposed to click it straight in

724
00:27:03,099 --> 00:27:00,859
your mouth that's what I'm doing wrong

725
00:27:07,060 --> 00:27:03,109
oh that's why it's never worked that's

726
00:27:09,519 --> 00:27:07,070
why I damn it well so these little click

727
00:27:10,989 --> 00:27:09,529
packs you get you get 80 pills in there

728
00:27:12,279 --> 00:27:10,999
and these tiny tiny little pills you can

729
00:27:16,060 --> 00:27:12,289
you know barely hold one in your hand

730
00:27:17,589 --> 00:27:16,070
little round sugar balls to give it the

731
00:27:19,389 --> 00:27:17,599
illusion of real medicine it's got one

732
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:19,399
of those glass vials inside but you know

733
00:27:23,769 --> 00:27:22,369
if this bricks it it seals off the end

734
00:27:25,599 --> 00:27:23,779
and you can't get any of your pills out

735
00:27:27,039 --> 00:27:25,609
if you try and you know rough it up or

736
00:27:28,839 --> 00:27:27,049
try and try and damage it's got one of

737
00:27:30,430 --> 00:27:28,849
those in there too partly so the glass

738
00:27:32,919 --> 00:27:30,440
will keep the vibrations intact and

739
00:27:36,489 --> 00:27:32,929
partly so that you can't do exactly what

740
00:27:38,379 --> 00:27:36,499
we did on mass essentially so somebody

741
00:27:39,549 --> 00:27:38,389
bought their homeopathy from from boots

742
00:27:41,860 --> 00:27:39,559
in bristol a chemist

743
00:27:44,379 --> 00:27:41,870
and it was broken they couldn't get any

744
00:27:46,210 --> 00:27:44,389
out and they went back to the till and I

745
00:27:49,330 --> 00:27:46,220
swear this is true or at least I've been

746
00:27:51,100 --> 00:27:49,340
informed this is true they said look I

747
00:27:52,239 --> 00:27:51,110
just bought this stuff and I can't get

748
00:27:53,499 --> 00:27:52,249
me out because the seal is broke could

749
00:27:55,299 --> 00:27:53,509
you replace it and the girl behind the

750
00:27:56,409 --> 00:27:55,309
till said yeah sure I think I said well

751
00:27:57,850 --> 00:27:56,419
could you hurry up because I actually

752
00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:57,860
have to go an overdose on this in three

753
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:00,080
minutes outside and the girl behind the

754
00:28:06,310 --> 00:28:04,610
till went oh yeah no problem it's

755
00:28:08,019 --> 00:28:06,320
amazing you know i mean when i when i

756
00:28:10,419 --> 00:28:08,029
bought it for the first / doors it was

757
00:28:12,639 --> 00:28:10,429
on a special offering boots yeah it was

758
00:28:15,129 --> 00:28:12,649
342 so i bought three packets of

759
00:28:16,029 --> 00:28:15,139
homeopathy all at once and I was there

760
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:16,039
with you know with my girlfriend the

761
00:28:18,850 --> 00:28:17,090
time when she bought some paracetamol

762
00:28:20,499 --> 00:28:18,860
and the guy who was behind the till

763
00:28:22,779 --> 00:28:20,509
scanned the three packets of homeopathy

764
00:28:24,820 --> 00:28:22,789
not a word got to the paracetamol as I

765
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:24,830
said okay now I taken in any of the

766
00:28:27,519 --> 00:28:26,210
medication is there anything you need to

767
00:28:29,139 --> 00:28:27,529
know about are you allergic to Percy's

768
00:28:31,269 --> 00:28:29,149
an [\h__\h] and I thought we just thought

769
00:28:35,259 --> 00:28:31,279
you know nearly 200 homeopathic pills

770
00:28:36,609 --> 00:28:35,269
and you've not said a word well I I had

771
00:28:39,279 --> 00:28:36,619
a similar experience here in this

772
00:28:44,739 --> 00:28:39,289
country so it were mine odd experience

773
00:28:46,419 --> 00:28:44,749
when I bought just hear that laughing

774
00:28:47,859 --> 00:28:46,429
that's a negative homeopathic pills and

775
00:28:49,629 --> 00:28:47,869
I bought these homeopathic pills just

776
00:28:51,999 --> 00:28:49,639
the other day dr. ray and I went into a

777
00:28:53,529 --> 00:28:52,009
pharmacy because we're doing media at

778
00:28:55,659 --> 00:28:53,539
the moment about homeopathy year in this

779
00:28:58,629 --> 00:28:55,669
country and have some pills and we were

780
00:29:01,090 --> 00:28:58,639
looking at the the shelf and a young

781
00:29:03,249 --> 00:29:01,100
lady came up to us up to us and said you

782
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:03,259
need any help selecting what to take

783
00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:05,690
before he said yeah we're just buying a

784
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:08,080
box sleeping pills to overdose on and

785
00:29:15,070 --> 00:29:11,450
taking her back and she says don't you

786
00:29:18,489 --> 00:29:15,080
believe in homeopathy well no oh I see

787
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:18,499
less and I asked what's your role here

788
00:29:24,519 --> 00:29:21,200
she said well I'm the the naturopath

789
00:29:27,310 --> 00:29:24,529
here at the pharmacy oh yeah we got into

790
00:29:29,919 --> 00:29:27,320
a bit of an argument and her clinching

791
00:29:31,509 --> 00:29:29,929
argument as to why homeopathy works when

792
00:29:33,580 --> 00:29:31,519
I pointed out I said you know that the

793
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:33,590
the list of ingredients on the packet

794
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:35,690
aren't in in here at all you know that

795
00:29:43,450 --> 00:29:37,730
and she said well of course it works by

796
00:29:46,359 --> 00:29:43,460
metaphysics now listeners in Australia

797
00:29:48,609 --> 00:29:46,369
this is happening in your pharmacies

798
00:29:51,549 --> 00:29:48,619
there are people in your pharmacies who

799
00:29:53,230 --> 00:29:51,559
will give you advice about medicines to

800
00:29:55,380 --> 00:29:53,240
take based on met

801
00:29:58,150 --> 00:29:55,390
physics the paranormal the supernatural

802
00:30:01,270 --> 00:29:58,160
so in this country we are working very

803
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:01,280
hard to stop this these people should

804
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:04,250
not be anywhere near a pharmacy oh god I

805
00:30:07,990 --> 00:30:05,600
absolutely know I'm really fascinated

806
00:30:09,850 --> 00:30:08,000
that she was a naturopath as well mm-hmm

807
00:30:11,380 --> 00:30:09,860
because this is another angle I thought

808
00:30:13,570 --> 00:30:11,390
was really really interesting is that we

809
00:30:16,090 --> 00:30:13,580
I once got an email and some of the

810
00:30:17,620 --> 00:30:16,100
emails that I get the hate mail are

811
00:30:20,380 --> 00:30:17,630
fairly spectacular and I occasionally

812
00:30:22,090 --> 00:30:20,390
blog them for a few giggles and when

813
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:22,100
we're at QED and I completely ran out of

814
00:30:26,290 --> 00:30:24,530
material for the 20-minute slot I'd

815
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:26,300
given myself to tell the story then

816
00:30:29,410 --> 00:30:27,530
managed to tell the story in seven

817
00:30:31,900 --> 00:30:29,420
minutes because I speak far too fast and

818
00:30:34,750 --> 00:30:31,910
I had 30 minutes to just fill on stage

819
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:34,760
in front of 350 people was terrifying

820
00:30:38,110 --> 00:30:36,410
moment and I started reading out here

821
00:30:40,270 --> 00:30:38,120
meal but one of the most interesting

822
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:40,280
piece of feedback I think we got was

823
00:30:43,570 --> 00:30:42,050
from a naturopath in in Canada more

824
00:30:45,910 --> 00:30:43,580
America one of the two apartment which

825
00:30:47,260 --> 00:30:45,920
got any Canadian American it listeners

826
00:30:49,930 --> 00:30:47,270
will hit me for not knowing the

827
00:30:51,700 --> 00:30:49,940
difference but she I forget it was a

828
00:30:58,750 --> 00:30:51,710
while ago now are you from burning him

829
00:31:01,180 --> 00:30:58,760
did I yeah yeah but she her feedback to

830
00:31:03,730 --> 00:31:01,190
me was could you make it more clear on

831
00:31:05,380 --> 00:31:03,740
the 10 23 site that there isn't anything

832
00:31:07,300 --> 00:31:05,390
in homeopathy and it's not herbal

833
00:31:09,100 --> 00:31:07,310
medicine because a lot of people confuse

834
00:31:11,020 --> 00:31:09,110
herbal medicine with homeopathic

835
00:31:12,190 --> 00:31:11,030
medicine and I'm a naturopath and I know

836
00:31:15,250 --> 00:31:12,200
her the medicine works whereas

837
00:31:16,750 --> 00:31:15,260
homeopathy is complete nonsense and I

838
00:31:18,820 --> 00:31:16,760
thought well for one thing our whole

839
00:31:19,810 --> 00:31:18,830
slogan is there's nothing in it i mean i

840
00:31:21,070 --> 00:31:19,820
don't know how we can make it more clear

841
00:31:23,380 --> 00:31:21,080
than that so i said to it you know what

842
00:31:25,510 --> 00:31:23,390
we feel we've made that point clearly

843
00:31:28,210 --> 00:31:25,520
and it's our central message but if you

844
00:31:30,340 --> 00:31:28,220
feel that you want to make the point if

845
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:30,350
you start a naturopathic against

846
00:31:34,660 --> 00:31:32,210
homeopathy you know if you start a there

847
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:34,670
is nothing natural about homeopathy will

848
00:31:37,810 --> 00:31:36,050
back you to the hilt because i would

849
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:37,820
love to see that but you you absolutely

850
00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:39,530
never see it it's one of the soft the

851
00:31:44,770 --> 00:31:42,110
red flags of pseudoscience is when

852
00:31:46,870 --> 00:31:44,780
somebody in the peripheries of what

853
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:46,880
they're what they're doing you know when

854
00:31:49,810 --> 00:31:48,050
they see someone else in the perfect of

855
00:31:51,310 --> 00:31:49,820
the same thing that they're doing and

856
00:31:53,140 --> 00:31:51,320
they disagree fully with that other

857
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:53,150
person they never criticize them you

858
00:31:58,390 --> 00:31:55,370
know you don't get acupuncture sing to

859
00:32:00,040 --> 00:31:58,400
people who believe in reflexology you

860
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:00,050
know there isn't this it's not all about

861
00:32:02,740 --> 00:32:01,610
your organs it's all about meridian

862
00:32:04,570 --> 00:32:02,750
lines you know you don't get fight

863
00:32:06,340 --> 00:32:04,580
between chakra specialists and

864
00:32:07,100 --> 00:32:06,350
chiropractors saying it's not your

865
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:07,110
chakra it's you

866
00:32:10,789 --> 00:32:09,120
your subluxation is you don't get that

867
00:32:13,039 --> 00:32:10,799
you know people that their band together

868
00:32:15,470 --> 00:32:13,049
you know it's it's cam United as it were

869
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:15,480
it really is it's it's amazing when you

870
00:32:21,140 --> 00:32:18,570
think about it they are they they're

871
00:32:24,620 --> 00:32:21,150
loath to attack each other they consider

872
00:32:25,970 --> 00:32:24,630
real medicine to be the enemy mmm which

873
00:32:28,970 --> 00:32:25,980
is amazing because you know that the

874
00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:28,980
people that practice real medicine and

875
00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:30,000
the people who do the research and

876
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:31,710
things out that the people they attack

877
00:32:36,350 --> 00:32:34,170
our each other because they say oh

878
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:36,360
you've come up with this finding let me

879
00:32:39,980 --> 00:32:38,010
see if you're wrong let me do everything

880
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:39,990
I can lateral peer review is it oh

881
00:32:43,789 --> 00:32:41,610
you're saying this works let me do

882
00:32:45,530 --> 00:32:43,799
everything to prove it's wrong and if I

883
00:32:46,970 --> 00:32:45,540
can't will say you're right for now

884
00:32:48,830 --> 00:32:46,980
until someone can prove you wrong and if

885
00:32:50,419 --> 00:32:48,840
you must you know if you keep ahead of

886
00:32:51,860 --> 00:32:50,429
the rug being pulled on you under you

887
00:32:55,159 --> 00:32:51,870
for long enough then you know your

888
00:32:57,500 --> 00:32:55,169
science essentially it's it's true it's

889
00:32:59,360 --> 00:32:57,510
absolutely true when I go to the

890
00:33:01,549 --> 00:32:59,370
mind-body wallet festivals here I mean

891
00:33:03,409 --> 00:33:01,559
you or plus people who are next to each

892
00:33:05,930 --> 00:33:03,419
other and their little stands are those

893
00:33:08,270 --> 00:33:05,940
stalls with completely contradictory

894
00:33:10,940 --> 00:33:08,280
messages but they're all happy you know

895
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:10,950
they're on the side of peace and love

896
00:33:16,490 --> 00:33:14,130
and New Age vibrational openness to the

897
00:33:17,690 --> 00:33:16,500
oneness of the rural area and yeah it

898
00:33:19,669 --> 00:33:17,700
will frequently get people who sell

899
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:19,679
multiple things that are internally

900
00:33:23,060 --> 00:33:21,450
conflicting you'll get some say oh well

901
00:33:25,250 --> 00:33:23,070
you know I can align your chakras and

902
00:33:27,340 --> 00:33:25,260
then i'll do some chiropractic on you

903
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:27,350
and then a bit of ricky and then some

904
00:33:31,820 --> 00:33:29,250
reflexology and you get people who will

905
00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:31,830
specialize in multiple completely

906
00:33:36,620 --> 00:33:34,710
contradictory modalities which is it

907
00:33:38,630 --> 00:33:36,630
must be a phenomenal it must either be

908
00:33:41,180 --> 00:33:38,640
as i say a complete lack of intellectual

909
00:33:43,700 --> 00:33:41,190
rigour you know not wanting to not know

910
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:43,710
curiosity no interest and no no

911
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:45,330
intention to get a bottom or something

912
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:47,850
or it if not that it must be a

913
00:33:54,020 --> 00:33:51,570
phenomenal exercise in in segment ation

914
00:33:55,190 --> 00:33:54,030
in the brain to say actually well you're

915
00:33:57,770 --> 00:33:55,200
looking at this now I'll do this bit

916
00:34:00,500 --> 00:33:57,780
partly both I would probably say and

917
00:34:02,150 --> 00:34:00,510
also along with that is a large dose of

918
00:34:05,870 --> 00:34:02,160
well I'm making a lot of money doing

919
00:34:09,950 --> 00:34:05,880
this well I bet it's not although I mean

920
00:34:11,810 --> 00:34:09,960
I I'm always love to just to go to the

921
00:34:13,099 --> 00:34:11,820
money angle on individual therapist I

922
00:34:14,419 --> 00:34:13,109
mean when I want you know we've

923
00:34:15,590 --> 00:34:14,429
mentioned i do skeptics okay one of the

924
00:34:16,820 --> 00:34:15,600
other shows i do is called righteous

925
00:34:18,099 --> 00:34:16,830
indignation and one of the things we do

926
00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:18,109
there is we have people who were

927
00:34:22,549 --> 00:34:20,879
proponents of view

928
00:34:23,899 --> 00:34:22,559
we disagree with on to talk about what

929
00:34:26,180 --> 00:34:23,909
they believe and the number of people

930
00:34:28,940 --> 00:34:26,190
we've spoken to who are crystal healers

931
00:34:31,009 --> 00:34:28,950
and you know Reiki practitioners and all

932
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:31,019
sorts different things and I generally

933
00:34:34,039 --> 00:34:32,970
don't think money is the main motivation

934
00:34:35,450 --> 00:34:34,049
for them because I think a lot of people

935
00:34:39,139 --> 00:34:35,460
don't make a lot of money out of it i

936
00:34:40,339 --> 00:34:39,149
think the make enough to get by but i

937
00:34:41,389 --> 00:34:40,349
don't think they love it living more

938
00:34:43,700 --> 00:34:41,399
comfortably than the average person

939
00:34:46,009 --> 00:34:43,710
working a conventional job i think it's

940
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:46,019
it's more the ego boost of of feeling

941
00:34:50,149 --> 00:34:48,240
like they're helping people or you know

942
00:34:52,669 --> 00:34:50,159
being the healer being the one who can

943
00:34:55,249 --> 00:34:52,679
turn people around who can have someone

944
00:34:57,230 --> 00:34:55,259
walk in with a back that's had them in

945
00:34:58,549 --> 00:34:57,240
agony for the past three years and you

946
00:35:00,319 --> 00:34:58,559
know with a couple of cracks make them

947
00:35:02,269 --> 00:35:00,329
feel like it's better I think it I think

948
00:35:05,870 --> 00:35:02,279
it's almost like the the ego trip or

949
00:35:08,329 --> 00:35:05,880
almost a semi messianic complex you know

950
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:08,339
of being the one who can heal you know I

951
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:10,170
don't need medicine I didn't need to do

952
00:35:14,450 --> 00:35:12,690
all that all that studying I can do my

953
00:35:16,130 --> 00:35:14,460
my alternative stuff and have an

954
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:16,140
alternative way of knowing I I generally

955
00:35:19,970 --> 00:35:17,130
think that's probably a bigger

956
00:35:22,609 --> 00:35:19,980
motivation than than than greed and

957
00:35:23,569 --> 00:35:22,619
Finance then that I've seen although you

958
00:35:24,890 --> 00:35:23,579
know you've been in this game a lot

959
00:35:27,049 --> 00:35:24,900
longer than me and I appreciate you

960
00:35:29,150 --> 00:35:27,059
probably yeah no you're absolutely right

961
00:35:31,849 --> 00:35:29,160
and I would absolutely concede your

962
00:35:34,460 --> 00:35:31,859
point yes I likewise on the other hand

963
00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:34,470
are about the cash I suspect that most

964
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:37,710
people are and well no psychics to most

965
00:35:45,289 --> 00:35:41,490
people I've met are genuinely deluded

966
00:35:46,700 --> 00:35:45,299
but sincere they are nice people when

967
00:35:48,890 --> 00:35:46,710
you get down to brass tacks they're

968
00:35:52,039 --> 00:35:48,900
people who want to do good by other

969
00:35:53,870 --> 00:35:52,049
people fine that's a very nice way to

970
00:35:56,420 --> 00:35:53,880
put it but yes of course there are

971
00:35:59,870 --> 00:35:56,430
people who realize our what what a sweet

972
00:36:01,609 --> 00:35:59,880
deal this is roll up and I'll take your

973
00:36:04,039 --> 00:36:01,619
or a photograph or I'll rely on your

974
00:36:05,930 --> 00:36:04,049
chakras knowing full well that it's it's

975
00:36:07,730 --> 00:36:05,940
just ridiculous but it's seat for them

976
00:36:09,910 --> 00:36:07,740
it's easy money so yes there is

977
00:36:14,839 --> 00:36:09,920
definitely a combination there I think

978
00:36:16,099 --> 00:36:14,849
yeah yeah actually this probably speaks

979
00:36:17,450 --> 00:36:16,109
to something we talked about earlier but

980
00:36:18,859 --> 00:36:17,460
it's just occurred to me that you have

981
00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:18,869
to hear this one because this is the

982
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:20,250
other best method I've ever heard of

983
00:36:24,650 --> 00:36:22,170
producing homeopathy that we were told

984
00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:24,660
by by someone who had studied some

985
00:36:27,349 --> 00:36:26,250
homeopathy to a point where they

986
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:27,359
realized it was [\h__\h] and they were

987
00:36:31,249 --> 00:36:29,130
told this that and this is how we

988
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:31,259
produce the the mass homeopathy we talk

989
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:34,530
for QED which was entirely genuine by

990
00:36:40,820 --> 00:36:36,690
legitimate by the means prescribed by

991
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:40,830
some homeopaths is if you have one or

992
00:36:47,150 --> 00:36:43,770
two homeopathic say arnica tablets at 30

993
00:36:49,730 --> 00:36:47,160
°c and you have a massive vat of blank

994
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:49,740
tablets you can put the arnica tablets

995
00:36:56,060 --> 00:36:51,930
into the blank tablets and circus the

996
00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:56,070
lot and you get 31c arnica what this is

997
00:37:00,170 --> 00:36:58,050
what we were told and you know we've

998
00:37:01,580 --> 00:37:00,180
looked into it and it checks out via via

999
00:37:03,370 --> 00:37:01,590
multiple different lines is there a

1000
00:37:06,410 --> 00:37:03,380
homeopath you genuinely believe this

1001
00:37:08,930 --> 00:37:06,420
which which i think is is again utterly

1002
00:37:12,340 --> 00:37:08,940
remarkable one wonders how they conduct

1003
00:37:15,650 --> 00:37:12,350
their quality control yeah yeah exactly

1004
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:15,660
I'm guessing there's not not a too many

1005
00:37:21,170 --> 00:37:19,410
compliance officers wandering round hey

1006
00:37:23,060 --> 00:37:21,180
could pick up a pill do a test oh I'm

1007
00:37:26,030 --> 00:37:23,070
sorry this has got one more proving

1008
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:26,040
before we can sell it well well this was

1009
00:37:32,270 --> 00:37:29,490
the thing at at QED because we were

1010
00:37:34,100 --> 00:37:32,280
advising everyone to take 30 see all

1011
00:37:37,550 --> 00:37:34,110
around the world because it's sick see

1012
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:37,560
you know you only at 12 10 to 12 I think

1013
00:37:40,220 --> 00:37:38,850
is it sir oh you know you're not passed

1014
00:37:42,290 --> 00:37:40,230
Avogadro's limited by that point so

1015
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:42,300
there is a a chant there is a reasonable

1016
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:44,010
chance that there still stuff in it I'll

1017
00:37:47,780 --> 00:37:46,290
be very small stuff that might not have

1018
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:47,790
much of an effect and even if it did

1019
00:37:51,500 --> 00:37:49,290
have an effect half it is onion juice

1020
00:37:53,810 --> 00:37:51,510
anyway another sort of not an assault

1021
00:37:55,100 --> 00:37:53,820
that kind of thing but it's 60 you've

1022
00:37:56,930 --> 00:37:55,110
still got molecules in it there still

1023
00:37:58,100 --> 00:37:56,940
something in it but a 30 see you don't

1024
00:37:59,840 --> 00:37:58,110
so we were telling people make sure you

1025
00:38:02,450 --> 00:37:59,850
go 30 see we weren't telling anyone to

1026
00:38:04,850 --> 00:38:02,460
go above that so what we took at QED was

1027
00:38:06,830 --> 00:38:04,860
31 c thought you want see bella donna i

1028
00:38:08,990 --> 00:38:06,840
think which was actually one see further

1029
00:38:11,180 --> 00:38:09,000
than we'd ever overdosed on before so

1030
00:38:12,410 --> 00:38:11,190
that was it was Harry times for a moment

1031
00:38:15,350 --> 00:38:12,420
we thought this is the strongest stuff

1032
00:38:16,910 --> 00:38:15,360
we've ever advised people to take on

1033
00:38:19,460 --> 00:38:16,920
that matter let me just read to you the

1034
00:38:21,170 --> 00:38:19,470
back of the packet here for Brower

1035
00:38:24,740 --> 00:38:21,180
natural medicine sleep and insomnia

1036
00:38:27,830 --> 00:38:24,750
relief which contains coffee at 30c

1037
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:27,840
delusions all sorts of weird things get

1038
00:38:33,250 --> 00:38:29,970
this for the this is their advice on

1039
00:38:36,860 --> 00:38:33,260
dosage dosage adults two tablets

1040
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:36,870
children 2 to 12 years one tablet so

1041
00:38:43,340 --> 00:38:38,490
they're advising that children take a

1042
00:38:45,830 --> 00:38:43,350
stronger dose than adults ya well what

1043
00:38:47,420 --> 00:38:45,840
what always it you know when when people

1044
00:38:48,410 --> 00:38:47,430
when Holly pass it obviously the thing

1045
00:38:50,570 --> 00:38:48,420
they said when we say

1046
00:38:52,190 --> 00:38:50,580
we're taking 80 tablets at once to her

1047
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:52,200
well you can do that because it's not

1048
00:38:56,390 --> 00:38:54,090
dose-dependent it's how many times you

1049
00:38:59,060 --> 00:38:56,400
take it it's not about how much you take

1050
00:39:00,920 --> 00:38:59,070
in one go which is fantastic because you

1051
00:39:02,810 --> 00:39:00,930
can then accuse them of doubly ripping

1052
00:39:04,850 --> 00:39:02,820
people off you can say okay if it's not

1053
00:39:06,590 --> 00:39:04,860
dose-dependent why take a full tablet

1054
00:39:08,090 --> 00:39:06,600
yeah yeah why not just take a little

1055
00:39:09,590 --> 00:39:08,100
tiny shaving from the side of the tub

1056
00:39:11,420 --> 00:39:09,600
and have that how small does it have to

1057
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:11,430
be too hairy the door so if it's not

1058
00:39:16,730 --> 00:39:14,370
dose-dependent amazing absolutely it's

1059
00:39:18,380 --> 00:39:16,740
one of the sweetest I mean yes of course

1060
00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:18,390
with acknowledging that there are

1061
00:39:22,460 --> 00:39:20,640
sincere people who practice it and

1062
00:39:24,890 --> 00:39:22,470
really believe in it but apart from that

1063
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:24,900
it's got to be one of the pardon the pun

1064
00:39:31,700 --> 00:39:28,410
sweetest scams there has ever been hmm

1065
00:39:35,030 --> 00:39:31,710
yeah yeah exactly and I think you can

1066
00:39:38,330 --> 00:39:35,040
almost use that as a proving yourself as

1067
00:39:40,580 --> 00:39:38,340
to whether the person you're speaking to

1068
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:40,590
debating or whatever genuinely has any

1069
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:43,770
interest in the science as it were

1070
00:39:47,210 --> 00:39:46,290
behind homeopathy or what they believed

1071
00:39:48,770 --> 00:39:47,220
to be the science behind homeopathy

1072
00:39:51,050 --> 00:39:48,780
because when you bring up arguments like

1073
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:51,060
this you can tell whether they've ever

1074
00:39:53,990 --> 00:39:52,890
thought about this before and saw so

1075
00:39:55,820 --> 00:39:54,000
often when you're debating people you'll

1076
00:39:57,650 --> 00:39:55,830
find that they have absolutely no

1077
00:39:59,300 --> 00:39:57,660
interest in debating that point they'll

1078
00:40:00,560 --> 00:39:59,310
never the lever stop and go all will

1079
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:00,570
that work because of this reason they'll

1080
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:01,890
just move on to something else here's a

1081
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:04,410
complete deflect and I think if you were

1082
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:05,610
to sit down with someone and actually

1083
00:40:10,700 --> 00:40:08,370
have them try and explain those really

1084
00:40:12,260 --> 00:40:10,710
significant problems then you might get

1085
00:40:14,270 --> 00:40:12,270
somewhere towards explaining to people

1086
00:40:16,460 --> 00:40:14,280
why holds explain to homeopath why

1087
00:40:19,220 --> 00:40:16,470
homeopathy doesn't work but there's a

1088
00:40:21,130 --> 00:40:19,230
complete unwillingness a lot of time to

1089
00:40:23,060 --> 00:40:21,140
listen to people who disagree with them

1090
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:23,070
one of the best things I heard a

1091
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:25,170
homeopath saying this was on New Zealand

1092
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:27,810
television is oh we know it works we're

1093
00:40:32,540 --> 00:40:31,050
just waiting for science to catch up yes

1094
00:40:34,190 --> 00:40:32,550
yeah absolutely this is this is the

1095
00:40:35,810 --> 00:40:34,200
great one you know it's like that that

1096
00:40:38,030 --> 00:40:35,820
constant canard that's trotted out is

1097
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:38,040
that science hasn't figured out how

1098
00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:40,530
homeopathy works yet and science doesn't

1099
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:42,240
know everything you know and then they

1100
00:40:46,340 --> 00:40:44,850
bring out the you know X number of years

1101
00:40:47,870 --> 00:40:46,350
ago they thought the world was flat

1102
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:47,880
which it turns out they didn't but

1103
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:50,160
nevermind yeah um and what's brilliant

1104
00:40:54,590 --> 00:40:52,290
is the answer to that is really simple

1105
00:40:56,900 --> 00:40:54,600
you know 200 years ago they thought

1106
00:40:59,030 --> 00:40:56,910
homeopathy worked and now we know it

1107
00:41:01,100 --> 00:40:59,040
doesn't you know it's not like we

1108
00:41:02,900 --> 00:41:01,110
thought the world was flat and

1109
00:41:04,910 --> 00:41:02,910
then around and now we found out is flat

1110
00:41:07,070 --> 00:41:04,920
again what you science is it is a

1111
00:41:08,690 --> 00:41:07,080
progression you know it's not cyclical

1112
00:41:10,370 --> 00:41:08,700
as such it you don't go backwards on

1113
00:41:12,140 --> 00:41:10,380
what you think you drive forward when

1114
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:12,150
you find out you're wrong you don't then

1115
00:41:15,470 --> 00:41:13,890
led to find out that actually you were

1116
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:15,480
right we're back at the start before you

1117
00:41:23,390 --> 00:41:20,160
developed into it absolutely true well

1118
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:23,400
mash what a great opportunity it's been

1119
00:41:27,230 --> 00:41:24,930
to have a chat with you I've been

1120
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:27,240
meaning to catch up with you for a very

1121
00:41:30,530 --> 00:41:28,770
long time I can't believe we haven't

1122
00:41:32,060 --> 00:41:30,540
spoken to each other before we must know

1123
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:32,070
it has been a long time it's ridiculous

1124
00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:33,930
it's just ridiculous we'll have to do it

1125
00:41:39,350 --> 00:41:36,510
again soon I hope but in the meantime

1126
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:39,360
how can people I mean they listen to the

1127
00:41:42,620 --> 00:41:41,010
skeptics and everybody knows where your

1128
00:41:44,990 --> 00:41:42,630
website is for skeptics with the case

1129
00:41:47,630 --> 00:41:45,000
but in case they went out for a cup of

1130
00:41:51,230 --> 00:41:47,640
tea during those ends where can people

1131
00:41:52,910 --> 00:41:51,240
find you you can find these the merger

1132
00:41:56,030 --> 00:41:52,920
at skeptic society at merseyside

1133
00:41:58,640 --> 00:41:56,040
skeptics dog you care or you can check

1134
00:42:02,210 --> 00:41:58,650
out 10 23 at ten thirty three dogs at UK

1135
00:42:05,300 --> 00:42:02,220
and that's 1 or 2 30 or do you care well

1136
00:42:07,730 --> 00:42:05,310
together mass you and I and thousands of

1137
00:42:10,820 --> 00:42:07,740
people around the world pushing our case

1138
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:10,830
for science and reason and specifically

1139
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:13,170
to ending this nonsense and this

1140
00:42:17,090 --> 00:42:15,330
quackery in witchcraft of homeopathy so

1141
00:42:19,310 --> 00:42:17,100
all power to you and all power to

1142
00:42:39,470 --> 00:42:19,320
everybody yeah thanks rich it's been a

1143
00:42:44,370 --> 00:42:42,090
hi this is travis from Granite State

1144
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:44,380
skeptics inviting you to this month

1145
00:42:50,490 --> 00:42:47,290
skeptics in the pub monday april

1146
00:42:52,710 --> 00:42:50,500
eleventh 7 p.m. at wings your way in

1147
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:52,720
manchester new hampshire this month

1148
00:42:55,500 --> 00:42:53,770
we're going to be doing something a

1149
00:42:59,340 --> 00:42:55,510
little different and we're going to be

1150
00:43:02,040 --> 00:42:59,350
having tom lynch of para Tom calm he's a

1151
00:43:06,270 --> 00:43:02,050
paranormal investigator and believer in

1152
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:06,280
the afterlife and haunted locations so

1153
00:43:21,500 --> 00:43:07,690
please join us while he shares his

1154
00:43:24,540 --> 00:43:21,510
evidence and his methods thank you and

1155
00:43:28,460 --> 00:43:24,550
now is part two of my interview with

1156
00:43:41,109 --> 00:43:37,370
I watched some weeks ago your YouTube

1157
00:43:44,810 --> 00:43:41,119
video about 10 23 homeopathy and

1158
00:43:47,330 --> 00:43:44,820
suggesting or almost demanding that

1159
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:47,340
retailers and manufacturers put a

1160
00:43:52,070 --> 00:43:49,410
warning label on packets of homeopathy

1161
00:43:54,260 --> 00:43:52,080
this is warning this product is not

1162
00:43:56,780 --> 00:43:54,270
medicine or words to that effect yeah

1163
00:43:58,910 --> 00:43:56,790
now I happen to also have been

1164
00:44:00,830 --> 00:43:58,920
interviewed by a television program here

1165
00:44:04,370 --> 00:44:00,840
just the other day and I made up a

1166
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:04,380
little picture with a packet of

1167
00:44:08,060 --> 00:44:06,330
homeopathy and overlaid on the packet

1168
00:44:11,780 --> 00:44:08,070
was that warning sticker and I held it

1169
00:44:14,870 --> 00:44:11,790
up to the camera and indeed getting back

1170
00:44:18,460 --> 00:44:14,880
to Norway I understand that you did the

1171
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:18,470
famous attempting to overdose on home

1172
00:44:24,140 --> 00:44:21,570
homeopathic pills in Norway as well yes

1173
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:24,150
leaving I should be very very much

1174
00:44:29,780 --> 00:44:27,090
asleep if not dead by now because oh

1175
00:44:32,060 --> 00:44:29,790
they it I have to stand there in front

1176
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:32,070
of the microphone and grind these things

1177
00:44:36,740 --> 00:44:33,690
up there little sugar pills little tiny

1178
00:44:38,780 --> 00:44:36,750
globules one of them was prepared with

1179
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:38,790
arsenic which doesn't worry me at all

1180
00:44:41,750 --> 00:44:40,290
because there's no arsenic in there and

1181
00:44:44,180 --> 00:44:41,760
the other ones were prepared from

1182
00:44:47,089 --> 00:44:44,190
caffeine and these are sleeping pills

1183
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:47,099
and they're prepared from caffeine but

1184
00:44:51,380 --> 00:44:49,200
as it I may have acquitted you with the

1185
00:44:53,839 --> 00:44:51,390
interesting fact that by the late Ted

1186
00:44:59,120 --> 00:44:53,849
Martin Gardner who is my most excellent

1187
00:45:01,250 --> 00:44:59,130
friend and who I missed greatly he did

1188
00:45:03,050 --> 00:45:01,260
little calculation for him yeah I called

1189
00:45:05,690 --> 00:45:03,060
him and I said Martin I'd like to know

1190
00:45:08,329 --> 00:45:05,700
if the concentration of caffeine in

1191
00:45:10,910 --> 00:45:08,339
these pills is so and so it wasn't

1192
00:45:14,150 --> 00:45:10,920
caffeine by the way it was a caffeic

1193
00:45:17,180 --> 00:45:14,160
cruda which means coffee beans just the

1194
00:45:19,490 --> 00:45:17,190
beans itself and any any bean has such a

1195
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:19,500
very very very small amount of caffeine

1196
00:45:24,140 --> 00:45:21,930
in it that makes it even more dilute if

1197
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:24,150
you can imagine that so at the time it

1198
00:45:28,700 --> 00:45:25,530
reaches the pill you could say it's a

1199
00:45:31,730 --> 00:45:28,710
husband or has never been never what

1200
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:31,740
else but anyway I said that how many of

1201
00:45:36,890 --> 00:45:33,330
these sleeping pills what I have to

1202
00:45:39,650 --> 00:45:36,900
ingest in order to make sure that I have

1203
00:45:41,799 --> 00:45:39,660
a good probability of getting one

1204
00:45:46,269 --> 00:45:41,809
molecule of crack up camp

1205
00:45:47,739 --> 00:45:46,279
a BRK pieces of caffeine and he said

1206
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:47,749
I'll do the calculation for and he

1207
00:45:51,759 --> 00:45:49,130
called me back in half an hour and he

1208
00:45:54,249 --> 00:45:51,769
said I hope you're seated but I was and

1209
00:45:56,499 --> 00:45:54,259
he told me that I would have to eat are

1210
00:46:00,279 --> 00:45:56,509
you ready for this I would have to eat

1211
00:46:03,130 --> 00:46:00,289
the contents of 16 average swimming

1212
00:46:05,140 --> 00:46:03,140
pools full of sleeping tablets now

1213
00:46:06,870 --> 00:46:05,150
that's not a pretty sight imagine being

1214
00:46:10,509 --> 00:46:06,880
a bathing suit first of all at one time

1215
00:46:12,759 --> 00:46:10,519
reasonably acceptable but now not not so

1216
00:46:15,999 --> 00:46:12,769
fetching I don't have many calls for

1217
00:46:18,789 --> 00:46:16,009
additional parties in a bathing suit but

1218
00:46:21,670 --> 00:46:18,799
you imagine be jumping into a pool full

1219
00:46:22,870 --> 00:46:21,680
of nothing but sleeping pills gobbling

1220
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:22,880
them all down i don't know how i would

1221
00:46:27,339 --> 00:46:25,130
do that you hold out and ask the

1222
00:46:31,179 --> 00:46:27,349
pertinent question do you feel sleepy

1223
00:46:33,519 --> 00:46:31,189
hey I'd say no and jump into the next

1224
00:46:35,769 --> 00:46:33,529
one we pull full of them and gobble them

1225
00:46:38,130 --> 00:46:35,779
all down it's that that's an incredible

1226
00:46:40,420 --> 00:46:38,140
figure but it's not an exaggeration

1227
00:46:42,459 --> 00:46:40,430
Richard yeah you know that and I know

1228
00:46:44,709 --> 00:46:42,469
that and I I hope that your listeners

1229
00:46:47,949 --> 00:46:44,719
know that is not an exaggeration at all

1230
00:46:52,109 --> 00:46:47,959
I would have to eat that many pills in

1231
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:52,119
order to be pretty sure that I'd

1232
00:46:59,199 --> 00:46:55,729
inhabited LBI again if your seats that I

1233
00:47:02,439 --> 00:46:59,209
had imbibed one molecule of caffeine and

1234
00:47:05,620 --> 00:47:02,449
is for a sleeping pill it's not to wake

1235
00:47:07,269 --> 00:47:05,630
up you know what I Randy I think I might

1236
00:47:08,799 --> 00:47:07,279
have to disagree with you on this

1237
00:47:11,829 --> 00:47:08,809
situation I think that is an

1238
00:47:13,569 --> 00:47:11,839
exaggeration because I daresay and I'll

1239
00:47:14,919 --> 00:47:13,579
speak about the local situation with

1240
00:47:16,929 --> 00:47:14,929
there's a company here that

1241
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:16,939
mass-produces sugar pills and labels

1242
00:47:21,130 --> 00:47:18,410
them homeopathy you could find them in

1243
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:21,140
almost every pharmacy I would bet my

1244
00:47:26,829 --> 00:47:24,170
next hot dinner on there being not even

1245
00:47:28,779 --> 00:47:26,839
a molecule in any packet they have ever

1246
00:47:30,999 --> 00:47:28,789
producer this stuff yeah well they just

1247
00:47:32,949 --> 00:47:31,009
ride out that sincerely that's true

1248
00:47:35,799 --> 00:47:32,959
except in this particular case it was

1249
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:35,809
calms forte was called and it's widely

1250
00:47:40,569 --> 00:47:37,729
sold in this country for what reason

1251
00:47:43,419 --> 00:47:40,579
I'll never figure out but the

1252
00:47:46,959 --> 00:47:43,429
concentration of the caffeine or the

1253
00:47:50,289 --> 00:47:46,969
kaffir cruda in there it was sufficient

1254
00:47:52,449 --> 00:47:50,299
that I would probably get a molecule of

1255
00:47:54,530 --> 00:47:52,459
caffeine Martin figured it out and I

1256
00:47:56,450 --> 00:47:54,540
have to trust him

1257
00:47:58,490 --> 00:47:56,460
because the concentration was much more

1258
00:48:02,570 --> 00:47:58,500
it wasn't deluded as much as it normally

1259
00:48:04,700 --> 00:48:02,580
is providing that they even bothered

1260
00:48:06,650 --> 00:48:04,710
going through the process and that's my

1261
00:48:08,810 --> 00:48:06,660
point especially in this country my

1262
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:08,820
point is why would any company bother

1263
00:48:13,490 --> 00:48:11,370
going for some mystical process when all

1264
00:48:15,140 --> 00:48:13,500
they have to do is mass-produced sugar

1265
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:15,150
pills and send them out to market end of

1266
00:48:18,530 --> 00:48:17,040
story yeah I mixed up the packages that

1267
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:18,540
won't begin difference at all just sugar

1268
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:20,370
yep yeah it just doesn't make any

1269
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:23,490
difference at all the campaign 1023

1270
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:25,290
campaign which is it's called these days

1271
00:48:29,570 --> 00:48:28,290
but your campaign and the skeptical

1272
00:48:33,050 --> 00:48:29,580
movements campaigned against this

1273
00:48:35,210 --> 00:48:33,060
witchcraft goes on but now I'd like to

1274
00:48:36,890 --> 00:48:35,220
change topics a little bit change the

1275
00:48:39,980 --> 00:48:36,900
topic a little bit and talk briefly

1276
00:48:41,540 --> 00:48:39,990
about the 1 million dollar prize from

1277
00:48:44,060 --> 00:48:41,550
the James Randi Educational Foundation

1278
00:48:46,580 --> 00:48:44,070
and the angle I'd like to put to you is

1279
00:48:49,130 --> 00:48:46,590
we all know it's there of course it's

1280
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:49,140
there it's it's you've gone to great

1281
00:48:54,260 --> 00:48:52,170
pains to show to anybody who cares to

1282
00:48:56,750 --> 00:48:54,270
look into it that the prize is really

1283
00:48:59,240 --> 00:48:56,760
there yet there are still people who

1284
00:49:01,760 --> 00:48:59,250
will not take your prize with the

1285
00:49:03,620 --> 00:49:01,770
ridiculous excuses that all of the

1286
00:49:05,930 --> 00:49:03,630
money's not there in James Randy's lying

1287
00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:05,940
all the time you must get an awful lot

1288
00:49:10,430 --> 00:49:08,250
of that oh yes I do it as a matter of

1289
00:49:13,340 --> 00:49:10,440
fact the the facts of the matter are

1290
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:13,350
that years ago we advertised that if

1291
00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:15,450
they wanted proof of it that we would

1292
00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:17,730
send them a notarized document that's an

1293
00:49:22,730 --> 00:49:20,730
attested warranted document that is a

1294
00:49:24,500 --> 00:49:22,740
legal document and if I were to make him

1295
00:49:25,850 --> 00:49:24,510
the statement on that sort of thing they

1296
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:25,860
could sue me and they could they could

1297
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:27,810
certainly win the many court of law here

1298
00:49:34,250 --> 00:49:31,170
in America so I offered to send them a

1299
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:34,260
copy of that form and as we got the from

1300
00:49:38,540 --> 00:49:36,570
the investment house which was Goldman

1301
00:49:42,590 --> 00:49:38,550
Sachs in those days no longer is now we

1302
00:49:44,510 --> 00:49:42,600
changed I used to every month when it

1303
00:49:46,310 --> 00:49:44,520
came in I would make a photocopy of it

1304
00:49:47,720 --> 00:49:46,320
and prepare five or six photocopies and

1305
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:47,730
put them in a drawer here in the other

1306
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:50,210
office and be prepared to mail them out

1307
00:49:57,590 --> 00:49:54,210
now the fact of the matter Richard is

1308
00:50:01,760 --> 00:49:57,600
that in all those years we have been

1309
00:50:05,660 --> 00:50:01,770
offering this evidence not one person

1310
00:50:06,970 --> 00:50:05,670
believer or non-believer has ever asked

1311
00:50:10,060 --> 00:50:06,980
to see that ever

1312
00:50:11,770 --> 00:50:10,070
and yet they continue to say the money

1313
00:50:13,870 --> 00:50:11,780
isn't there no it's all a fake James

1314
00:50:17,470 --> 00:50:13,880
Randi is a magician he's a liar it is

1315
00:50:20,260 --> 00:50:17,480
not there but it's open for examination

1316
00:50:23,109 --> 00:50:20,270
the the notarized document as I say is a

1317
00:50:26,050 --> 00:50:23,119
legal document it's a a binding document

1318
00:50:27,910 --> 00:50:26,060
and we certainly could be successfully

1319
00:50:29,530 --> 00:50:27,920
sued if we made a statement like that

1320
00:50:32,530 --> 00:50:29,540
saying the million dollars is there and

1321
00:50:34,180 --> 00:50:32,540
it wasn't there for that purpose and it

1322
00:50:35,590 --> 00:50:34,190
is reserved as a matter of fact the

1323
00:50:37,930 --> 00:50:35,600
account is called the James Randi

1324
00:50:40,510 --> 00:50:37,940
Educational Foundation prize account and

1325
00:50:42,490 --> 00:50:40,520
it's specifically for that purpose at

1326
00:50:44,530 --> 00:50:42,500
the moment it's about 1.3 million

1327
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:44,540
dollars and we'll take some off the top

1328
00:50:48,070 --> 00:50:46,160
of it in order to help run the

1329
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:48,080
foundation it will always be a minimum

1330
00:50:54,970 --> 00:50:51,770
of 1 billion dollars not one person has

1331
00:50:57,940 --> 00:50:54,980
ever asked to see that evidence not by

1332
00:51:00,970 --> 00:50:57,950
facts not time by the personal visit not

1333
00:51:03,250 --> 00:51:00,980
by mail not by email no one has ever

1334
00:51:06,310 --> 00:51:03,260
asked to see it and that's astonishing

1335
00:51:08,349 --> 00:51:06,320
isn't it that is surprising because they

1336
00:51:11,349 --> 00:51:08,359
rail against the fact that they think

1337
00:51:14,020 --> 00:51:11,359
it's a it's a phony and I think of

1338
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:14,030
people like in this country of somebody

1339
00:51:19,030 --> 00:51:15,650
called Victor zammit who some of our

1340
00:51:22,570 --> 00:51:19,040
listeners may be aware of who who is is

1341
00:51:24,730 --> 00:51:22,580
quite a interesting fellow but yes rails

1342
00:51:27,070 --> 00:51:24,740
against you he's the guy he's the guy

1343
00:51:29,859 --> 00:51:27,080
who's put up his own million-dollar

1344
00:51:33,220 --> 00:51:29,869
prize for anybody who can disprove the

1345
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:33,230
afterlife yes which is impossible in

1346
00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:35,570
literally logically and and and

1347
00:51:39,670 --> 00:51:37,250
semantically in every way it's

1348
00:51:41,980 --> 00:51:39,680
impossible and I'm sure that mr. Zammit

1349
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:41,990
knows that he's got an impossible task

1350
00:51:46,300 --> 00:51:44,210
that he has asked people to do and we

1351
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:46,310
don't try to disprove anything as a

1352
00:51:50,950 --> 00:51:48,770
matter of fact I don't deny that there

1353
00:51:54,609 --> 00:51:50,960
are no goblins vampires angels

1354
00:51:57,070 --> 00:51:54,619
seraphim's devils whatever or gods or

1355
00:51:59,620 --> 00:51:57,080
goddesses of any kind I don't deny that

1356
00:52:02,200 --> 00:51:59,630
because I can't prove that there isn't

1357
00:52:03,910 --> 00:52:02,210
such a thing I merely say you say there

1358
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:03,920
is i'll tell you what i'll give you a

1359
00:52:07,900 --> 00:52:05,330
billion dollars if you can prove your

1360
00:52:10,300 --> 00:52:07,910
case that's all we don't ever say that

1361
00:52:12,700 --> 00:52:10,310
these things don't exist because we

1362
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:12,710
can't prove our case they're absolutely

1363
00:52:17,530 --> 00:52:15,290
right and but but these personal attacks

1364
00:52:20,650 --> 00:52:17,540
on your credibility or the credibility

1365
00:52:23,470 --> 00:52:20,660
of the prize recently I saw

1366
00:52:25,690 --> 00:52:23,480
Rupert Sheldrake come out and rail

1367
00:52:27,490 --> 00:52:25,700
against you and say he'd never go for

1368
00:52:30,220 --> 00:52:27,500
your prize because he doesn't trust you

1369
00:52:32,349 --> 00:52:30,230
personally and I spotted exist and so on

1370
00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:32,359
and so on instead of just going through

1371
00:52:38,260 --> 00:52:34,640
a few basic steps one to verify the

1372
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:38,270
prizes there and I think he must know he

1373
00:52:43,599 --> 00:52:40,730
must really know that that it's there

1374
00:52:45,579 --> 00:52:43,609
and also that you're not involved with

1375
00:52:48,099 --> 00:52:45,589
the testing if that's appropriate you

1376
00:52:49,599 --> 00:52:48,109
don't even have to be within a thousand

1377
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:49,609
miles of the test I don't have to do

1378
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:51,650
when it's taking place he but becomes a

1379
00:52:54,970 --> 00:52:52,970
logjam accused me of putting out

1380
00:52:57,549 --> 00:52:54,980
negative vibrations when the test taking

1381
00:52:59,589 --> 00:52:57,559
place they don't really vertically laugh

1382
00:53:01,779 --> 00:52:59,599
at myself but they take that quite

1383
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:01,789
seriously all yes no heater he used his

1384
00:53:05,950 --> 00:53:03,410
influence to see like in the Gurry

1385
00:53:08,020 --> 00:53:05,960
Geller test where Geller was trying to

1386
00:53:11,620 --> 00:53:08,030
have people bend spoons that he had on

1387
00:53:13,930 --> 00:53:11,630
his website on a running cam there Elias

1388
00:53:15,609 --> 00:53:13,940
and he said that we had interfered with

1389
00:53:18,549 --> 00:53:15,619
and I had interfered with it personally

1390
00:53:21,010 --> 00:53:18,559
by putting out evil vibrations Hey oh

1391
00:53:22,990 --> 00:53:21,020
you're a very powerful man Randy oh yes

1392
00:53:24,910 --> 00:53:23,000
very true very true we don't haven't

1393
00:53:28,230 --> 00:53:24,920
heard much of mr. Geller in the last few

1394
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:28,240
years isn't more or less accepted now by

1395
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:32,690
most people that the gallery is or was a

1396
00:53:39,309 --> 00:53:36,770
magician and with no miracles or they're

1397
00:53:41,140 --> 00:53:39,319
still people hanging on as Geller still

1398
00:53:42,910 --> 00:53:41,150
hanging onto well he's just opening a

1399
00:53:44,589 --> 00:53:42,920
series in Sweden I don't know how many

1400
00:53:46,569 --> 00:53:44,599
weeks it's going to run but he's

1401
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:46,579
contracted for four hundred thousand

1402
00:53:50,950 --> 00:53:48,410
dollars and the adjutant american

1403
00:53:53,019 --> 00:53:50,960
dollars were speaking now to to do this

1404
00:53:54,579 --> 00:53:53,029
program and it's called successor you

1405
00:53:55,839 --> 00:53:54,589
know the the same old thing he's been

1406
00:53:58,210 --> 00:53:55,849
peddling in every country all over

1407
00:54:01,120 --> 00:53:58,220
europe and the religious buying it but

1408
00:54:04,029 --> 00:54:01,130
that's further proof of the fact Richard

1409
00:54:06,099 --> 00:54:04,039
that the media is the great enemy here

1410
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:06,109
the immediate doesn't care whether or

1411
00:54:11,289 --> 00:54:08,450
not it's true Geller has been shown to

1412
00:54:14,140 --> 00:54:11,299
be a mere magician nothing more than

1413
00:54:16,660 --> 00:54:14,150
that he's doing common conjuring tricks

1414
00:54:19,420 --> 00:54:16,670
it's been proven again and again and

1415
00:54:22,510 --> 00:54:19,430
again and it's been established it's not

1416
00:54:24,279 --> 00:54:22,520
a just a theory at all but the media

1417
00:54:25,569 --> 00:54:24,289
doesn't care about that because they

1418
00:54:27,819 --> 00:54:25,579
know there will be a certain number of

1419
00:54:29,799 --> 00:54:27,829
people out there who buy products who

1420
00:54:32,589 --> 00:54:29,809
will buy this program and therefore buy

1421
00:54:33,670 --> 00:54:32,599
the products yeah I'd have to agree you

1422
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:33,680
know I've got as

1423
00:54:38,890 --> 00:54:36,650
my listeners may know I've got quite a

1424
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:38,900
close and personal experience with how

1425
00:54:43,839 --> 00:54:41,690
the media will run with a story simply

1426
00:54:45,790 --> 00:54:43,849
because it's the story that's going to

1427
00:54:47,530 --> 00:54:45,800
put as we say and on this country in

1428
00:54:48,910 --> 00:54:47,540
this country bums on seats in other

1429
00:54:51,700 --> 00:54:48,920
words people in front of the screen to

1430
00:54:55,089 --> 00:54:51,710
watch the ads so for the soap powders or

1431
00:54:57,130 --> 00:54:55,099
whatever anyway that's but that's that's

1432
00:54:59,290 --> 00:54:57,140
the way the world works we we try to

1433
00:55:01,540 --> 00:54:59,300
work with that as much as possible and

1434
00:55:04,150 --> 00:55:01,550
every now and then we have our successes

1435
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:04,160
we have our victories which keeps us all

1436
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:06,530
going I think and of course something

1437
00:55:11,230 --> 00:55:09,650
else that keeps us all going and I think

1438
00:55:14,620 --> 00:55:11,240
I've said this before the highlight of

1439
00:55:17,620 --> 00:55:14,630
my year without doubt is the amazing

1440
00:55:20,650 --> 00:55:17,630
meeting at the in Las Vegas at the south

1441
00:55:22,809 --> 00:55:20,660
point casino there and well last year if

1442
00:55:25,510 --> 00:55:22,819
we had two towns one in Australia of

1443
00:55:28,150 --> 00:55:25,520
course but let's look to or we had 31

1444
00:55:30,780 --> 00:55:28,160
London as well one London it could give

1445
00:55:35,740 --> 00:55:30,790
heard of London agh a little island a

1446
00:55:38,589 --> 00:55:35,750
guitar France just a fret but yes so we

1447
00:55:41,319 --> 00:55:38,599
are now officially in the run-up to the

1448
00:55:43,809 --> 00:55:41,329
amazing meeting nine in Las Vegas I'm

1449
00:55:46,539 --> 00:55:43,819
quite honored to be on the build this

1450
00:55:49,660 --> 00:55:46,549
year long with dr. H II am sharing the

1451
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:49,670
bill with some astonishing speakers it

1452
00:55:54,910 --> 00:55:52,490
this must give you a big kick every year

1453
00:55:58,059 --> 00:55:54,920
to Randy oh it does as a matter of fact

1454
00:56:00,010 --> 00:55:58,069
of richard i have to admit to you and to

1455
00:56:02,770 --> 00:56:00,020
your listeners i'm sure there are more

1456
00:56:06,339 --> 00:56:02,780
than two out there i hope so yeah we all

1457
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:06,349
hope so um I must admit to you that I'm

1458
00:56:14,079 --> 00:56:10,130
a little bit odd and rather cowed by it

1459
00:56:16,359 --> 00:56:14,089
when I walk out on that stage and I see

1460
00:56:19,450 --> 00:56:16,369
all these people ever rising to their

1461
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:19,460
feet and the camp they came here because

1462
00:56:27,730 --> 00:56:25,490
of me Wow and then and I always say at

1463
00:56:29,829 --> 00:56:27,740
all of the amazing meetings no matter

1464
00:56:31,270 --> 00:56:29,839
where in the world I say I want to beat

1465
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:31,280
every one of you I want to shake your

1466
00:56:37,420 --> 00:56:34,010
hand and then pose for a picture if you

1467
00:56:40,059 --> 00:56:37,430
want certainly and please go to your way

1468
00:56:42,370 --> 00:56:40,069
to do that then I get massive email

1469
00:56:43,510 --> 00:56:42,380
afterwards oh you were too busy that's

1470
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:43,520
how you were talking with some other

1471
00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:46,210
people and I didn't want to bother you

1472
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:48,250
I I want to be bothered I want you to

1473
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:50,290
come over and say hey I like what you do

1474
00:56:54,540 --> 00:56:52,330
or I don't like what you do whatever I

1475
00:56:56,970 --> 00:56:54,550
want to hear from these people but I am

1476
00:56:59,370 --> 00:56:56,980
awed by the fact that so many people

1477
00:57:01,710 --> 00:56:59,380
will travel such great distances now the

1478
00:57:04,380 --> 00:57:01,720
last salmon Vegas we had people from

1479
00:57:06,839 --> 00:57:04,390
china from France from Australia as you

1480
00:57:08,460 --> 00:57:06,849
know and from all over the world almost

1481
00:57:10,950 --> 00:57:08,470
every country there were greased and

1482
00:57:13,349 --> 00:57:10,960
they'd people that we'd never heard of

1483
00:57:16,620 --> 00:57:13,359
they just came because the meeting was

1484
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:16,630
there and that really flatters me

1485
00:57:22,770 --> 00:57:19,690
nervously and scares me a bit well it's

1486
00:57:25,650 --> 00:57:22,780
it's a wonderful experience I've been 20

1487
00:57:29,010 --> 00:57:25,660
quite a few times now the very first

1488
00:57:30,750 --> 00:57:29,020
time I went to I was very lucky to be an

1489
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:30,760
invited speaker and I had an enormously

1490
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:33,130
fun time jet lag is a problem but we

1491
00:57:37,020 --> 00:57:35,170
learn to deal with that you must be not

1492
00:57:38,700 --> 00:57:37,030
you're no stranger to jet lag I'm sure

1493
00:57:41,910 --> 00:57:38,710
no not at all but there was a time when

1494
00:57:44,820 --> 00:57:41,920
I used to have breakfast after landing

1495
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:44,830
and I would say to my body body this is

1496
00:57:50,940 --> 00:57:47,050
breakfast and I do I swear I would hear

1497
00:57:53,099 --> 00:57:50,950
those inside as my body reset but not

1498
00:57:54,990 --> 00:57:53,109
happening where it goes like that it

1499
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:55,000
doesn't really get started it takes me a

1500
00:57:58,589 --> 00:57:56,530
couple of days to get over it now and

1501
00:58:00,900 --> 00:57:58,599
I've just had a double dose of going to

1502
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:00,910
Norway and that's five hours difference

1503
00:58:05,490 --> 00:58:03,010
from here and then having to readjust

1504
00:58:07,020 --> 00:58:05,500
again and then it's both sound of the

1505
00:58:10,050 --> 00:58:07,030
afternoon when I may take a 15 minute

1506
00:58:12,660 --> 00:58:10,060
nap just to catch up and yes well I

1507
00:58:15,620 --> 00:58:12,670
wouldn't miss tam vegas for the world

1508
00:58:18,300 --> 00:58:15,630
and i wanted to give you the opportunity

1509
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:18,310
as if it needed to be done because it's

1510
00:58:22,500 --> 00:58:20,770
such a wonderful thing to remind our

1511
00:58:25,650 --> 00:58:22,510
audience those thinking about maybe

1512
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:25,660
coming to town or to prompt them maybe

1513
00:58:29,609 --> 00:58:27,970
into coming I i can give every

1514
00:58:31,710 --> 00:58:29,619
recommendation but i think it's better

1515
00:58:34,970 --> 00:58:31,720
coming from you well we have that more

1516
00:58:38,099 --> 00:58:34,980
than 300 is coming up on 400 Charlie

1517
00:58:39,990 --> 00:58:38,109
registrants already and the registration

1518
00:58:42,810 --> 00:58:40,000
I think it's been only open for a weaker

1519
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:42,820
hey days or something that that shows

1520
00:58:47,339 --> 00:58:44,890
that we're going to be overbooked and

1521
00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:47,349
that's how I heard you and this is quite

1522
00:58:50,430 --> 00:58:48,880
understand i'm not trying to prop up

1523
00:58:54,270 --> 00:58:50,440
business or anything but we don't have

1524
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:54,280
any any lack of people wanted to get in

1525
00:58:58,800 --> 00:58:56,770
yeah um but if you're going to come

1526
00:58:59,940 --> 00:58:58,810
folks i would suggest that you get

1527
00:59:03,060 --> 00:58:59,950
registered right

1528
00:59:04,890 --> 00:59:03,070
because it's filling up rapidly and I

1529
00:59:07,740 --> 00:59:04,900
believe there is a period of where the

1530
00:59:10,620 --> 00:59:07,750
the price is discounted for early

1531
00:59:12,270 --> 00:59:10,630
applicants and I urge you to apply I

1532
00:59:15,569 --> 00:59:12,280
want to meet all of you if I possibly

1533
00:59:18,810 --> 00:59:15,579
can but again i'm not trying to sell it

1534
00:59:20,270 --> 00:59:18,820
it's already sold but if you want to

1535
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:20,280
come from Australia we should have a

1536
00:59:27,210 --> 00:59:23,650
sizable Australian contingent don't you

1537
00:59:29,910 --> 00:59:27,220
think retreat oh absolutely the I'm

1538
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:29,920
surprised I'm if I can use the word i'm

1539
00:59:35,460 --> 00:59:32,170
amazed by how many Australians I bump

1540
00:59:37,050 --> 00:59:35,470
into over at em so that's it's a delight

1541
00:59:39,390 --> 00:59:37,060
for me to see so many Australians there

1542
00:59:42,870 --> 00:59:39,400
and the hotel itself the south point

1543
00:59:44,579 --> 00:59:42,880
casino and spa it's it's like a little

1544
00:59:47,430 --> 00:59:44,589
city all to itself that's a remarkable

1545
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:47,440
place yes it is indeed and and the

1546
00:59:52,950 --> 00:59:49,810
beautiful part for me is that I never

1547
00:59:55,050 --> 00:59:52,960
have to go outside baby are you there I

1548
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:55,060
go under a canopy I go through the

1549
00:59:58,770 --> 00:59:57,130
swinging doors and I'm gone for the

1550
01:00:01,140 --> 00:59:58,780
whole thing and i live in

1551
01:00:03,450 --> 01:00:01,150
air-conditioned splendor and so does

1552
01:00:05,609 --> 01:00:03,460
everybody but it is it is wonderful of

1553
01:00:08,670 --> 01:00:05,619
course i have to go to depends home

1554
01:00:11,190 --> 01:00:08,680
because that pen is selling tours of his

1555
01:00:15,089 --> 01:00:11,200
home again I and that's pretty well sold

1556
01:00:16,829 --> 01:00:15,099
out now I understand and I'll be out

1557
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:16,839
there and we'll have a lot of laughs and

1558
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:19,530
he'll insult me and I'll insult him and

1559
01:00:24,270 --> 01:00:22,210
we'll give a hug at the end of that I I

1560
01:00:26,339 --> 01:00:24,280
want to see his family again he's got a

1561
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:26,349
wonderful family and and a marvelous

1562
01:00:31,079 --> 01:00:28,290
home and you've been there of course

1563
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:31,089
actually you know Randy I happened and I

1564
01:00:35,790 --> 01:00:33,490
may well try to sneak onto the bus this

1565
01:00:37,859 --> 01:00:35,800
time well though it's called he calls it

1566
01:00:41,250 --> 01:00:37,869
the slammer the slammer the slammer

1567
01:00:43,890 --> 01:00:41,260
which is American slang for prison yes

1568
01:00:45,870 --> 01:00:43,900
and it's got big concrete walls and such

1569
01:00:48,870 --> 01:00:45,880
and he pretty well means it but it is a

1570
01:00:51,210 --> 01:00:48,880
remarkable home it just astonishing and

1571
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:51,220
your mouth is open all the way through

1572
01:00:54,770 --> 01:00:52,690
as you wander around you just don't

1573
01:00:58,589 --> 01:00:54,780
believe what he's accomplished there

1574
01:01:00,720 --> 01:00:58,599
well then I i I'm a we'll have to sneak

1575
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:00,730
onto the bus or grab onto the roof or do

1576
01:01:04,530 --> 01:01:02,170
something to see if I can get out there

1577
01:01:06,420 --> 01:01:04,540
this year i'm sure i'll get to album

1578
01:01:08,910 --> 01:01:06,430
sure i'll get to see it at some stage

1579
01:01:11,190 --> 01:01:08,920
Randy I'm looking forward to seeing you

1580
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:11,200
in a very few months now at the amazing

1581
01:01:14,690 --> 01:01:11,970
meeting

1582
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:14,700
it's again I keep saying it but it

1583
01:01:18,859 --> 01:01:16,290
really is the highlight of my year the

1584
01:01:21,230 --> 01:01:18,869
whole experience is a whirlwind of

1585
01:01:24,890 --> 01:01:21,240
skeptics and great talks and interesting

1586
01:01:26,900 --> 01:01:24,900
people not to be missed surely not to be

1587
01:01:28,849 --> 01:01:26,910
missed but thank you for sparing some

1588
01:01:30,740 --> 01:01:28,859
time to talk to the skeptics own today

1589
01:01:33,109 --> 01:01:30,750
what a wonderful and interesting life

1590
01:01:35,990 --> 01:01:33,119
you've had and are still having I'm

1591
01:01:38,450 --> 01:01:36,000
delighted to say working on your next

1592
01:01:41,150 --> 01:01:38,460
book which I'll get you to briefly

1593
01:01:44,150 --> 01:01:41,160
mention because I can't wait to read

1594
01:01:45,620 --> 01:01:44,160
that too yes this book is called a

1595
01:01:48,050 --> 01:01:45,630
magician in the laboratory and it's

1596
01:01:49,940 --> 01:01:48,060
going to deal with all kinds of

1597
01:01:52,070 --> 01:01:49,950
interesting stuff including the fact

1598
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:52,080
that Neil deGrasse Tyson who is going to

1599
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:54,770
be a guest at tam this year in Las Vegas

1600
01:02:00,380 --> 01:01:57,210
has actually given me a certain amount

1601
01:02:03,470 --> 01:02:00,390
of an endorsement a wonderful gentleman

1602
01:02:05,270 --> 01:02:03,480
a great scholar he's the the cheap at

1603
01:02:08,030 --> 01:02:05,280
the Hayden Planetarium in New York City

1604
01:02:10,670 --> 01:02:08,040
we're very proud to have him attending

1605
01:02:12,910 --> 01:02:10,680
and well you can go to the website and

1606
01:02:16,339 --> 01:02:12,920
you can read it all right there

1607
01:02:18,050 --> 01:02:16,349
excellent excellent because of your your

1608
01:02:19,670 --> 01:02:18,060
books are the ones that once you pick

1609
01:02:21,349 --> 01:02:19,680
them up you just can't put them down

1610
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:21,359
until you've reached the last page that

1611
01:02:27,770 --> 01:02:25,050
they're terrific read anyway let's all

1612
01:02:31,130 --> 01:02:27,780
get ready prepare ourselves okay take

1613
01:02:33,980 --> 01:02:31,140
those jet lag pills and we'll see you at

1614
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:33,990
tam nine James Randi thank you very much

1615
01:02:38,300 --> 01:02:36,330
looking forward to it Richard and to all

1616
01:02:41,570 --> 01:02:38,310
of Australia I want to see you all in

1617
01:02:55,810 --> 01:02:41,580
Las Vegas every single citizen okay see

1618
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:02,380
I am on it oh yeah Kristen Aviva tips

1619
01:03:06,220 --> 01:03:03,890
addai some lotion lifted off the skeptic

1620
01:03:08,350 --> 01:03:06,230
zone I'm skeptical marine nadia the fins

1621
01:03:10,060 --> 01:03:08,360
not a blog gear or pub def a podcast of

1622
01:03:12,010 --> 01:03:10,070
reading it skips esteem is leaked on

1623
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:12,020
this door open ah central i'll skip

1624
01:03:15,460 --> 01:03:13,730
cystal demo or higher publicize the

1625
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:15,470
deeps corner Chiclets and calendar /

1626
01:03:18,910 --> 01:03:17,450
activator or link eternity research it

1627
01:03:20,710 --> 01:03:18,920
escapes his blog in a fraternity I'm

1628
01:03:22,780 --> 01:03:20,720
Leigh autodesk ateres hefty performance

1629
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:22,790
so stick kingdom Oh Delta dosa escapes

1630
01:03:43,460 --> 01:03:41,040
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1631
01:03:46,310 --> 01:03:43,470
zone I'm still getting over those

1632
01:03:49,290 --> 01:03:46,320
ridiculous things about homeopathy

1633
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:49,300
whatever next hey just shake the pills

1634
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:50,890
next to each other and bam oh they're

1635
01:04:00,240 --> 01:03:55,330
magic let's let's beyond ridiculous oh

1636
01:04:02,970 --> 01:04:00,250
well the fight goes on I hope you look

1637
01:04:05,910 --> 01:04:02,980
forward to the skeptic zone keeping you

1638
01:04:08,100 --> 01:04:05,920
company again next week I would have

1639
01:04:11,220 --> 01:04:08,110
some more great interviews lined up for

1640
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:11,230
you more reports more segments until

1641
01:04:20,370 --> 01:04:13,330
then this is Richard Saunders signing

1642
01:04:23,670 --> 01:04:20,380
off from Sydney Australia you've been

1643
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:23,680
listening to the skeptic zone visit our

1644
01:04:30,690 --> 01:04:28,210
website at www skeptics on TV the